[QUOTE=DaWhatTheFox;52766434][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/vRlDzPU.png[/IMG]
Guess we made it after all.[/QUOTE]
new WR
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;52766576]to be fair, just outright declaring independence would not go well for them at all[/QUOTE]
Worked for America... we just had to fight a war about it
[QUOTE=Quark:;52766740]Worked for America... we just had to fight a war about it[/QUOTE]We were also separated by a giant body of water that took several months to cross
[QUOTE=Killer900;52767235]We were also separated by a giant body of water that took several months to cross[/QUOTE]
Plus we had Spain and France backing us up, Britain's commanders were disorganized and incompetent, etc. etc.
[QUOTE=DaWhatTheFox;52766434][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/vRlDzPU.png[/IMG]
Guess we made it after all.[/QUOTE]
It's not there anymore.
El cid Campeador! Spain calls for you once more to unify the land!
Might as well update:
Last week the Govt started the Article 155 process, which requires Puigdemont to actively act against the interest of Spain yada yada yada... in this case, requires him to clearly proclaim independence.
Since last week's 9-second-independence was too ambiguous, Govt gave him until today at 10AM to clear up wether it was actually a declaration with either a YES or a NO, noting that another unclear response would be taken as a yes. They're also spamming him with petitions of negotiating in order to stop this (which he can't really do, because the running catalonian political party pro-independence will have his head on a stick if he doesn't proclaim it).
Today, at 10AM, he's just sent ANOTHER ambiguous response. Govt is getting annoyed with him and gave until Thursday to stop fucking around and give a clear response.
To Spanish Facepunchers;
What is the general public perception of Catalan independence?
I was talking to my old Galician flatmate about this and she is very pro-independence for Catalonia, but she is just one person. I know the government is fucking up but what about regular folk?
The subject is polemic and even amoung the young there are two sides:
-The ones who believe everyone has the right to have their own land.
-The ones who thinks is illegal and all must be arrested.
While the most frequent opinion about the whole thing is that you can't solve political problems with violence, there are a significant number that yes "because they deserve it".
Among old adults and the elderly is mostly one sided towards repression, thanks to years of propaganda about "How Catalonian people are mean to Spaniards" and how they get more money than the rest but not share the benefits with everyone ( which is obviously a lie ).
The thing is that since the economical crisis started, people have grown desperate and since the central government doesn't listen to the citizens, the regional politics have seen this chance as a way to secure themselves into power and fly away from their corrupt crimes. Is always a smokescreen.
Honestly I'm agaisnt independence since it makes no sense in this globalized world, but by constantly ignoring the problems of the people they pretty much have reasons to attempt this ( even if we all know is going to turn bad ).
[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/spain-threatens-to-take-over-catalonias-government-as-constitutional-crisis-looms/2017/10/19/4d2f49f0-b429-11e7-9b93-b97043e57a22_story.html?utm_term=.d577b56bb386[/url]
Just keeps getting worse
Apologies
[url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41678086[/url]
[QUOTE=Megadave;52796342][url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/spain-threatens-to-take-over-catalonias-government-as-constitutional-crisis-looms/2017/10/19/4d2f49f0-b429-11e7-9b93-b97043e57a22_story.html?utm_term=.d577b56bb386[/url]
Just keeps getting worse[/QUOTE]
do you have a source without a paywall
[t]https://i.imgur.com/ec5NHws.png[/t]
[QUOTE=Quark:;52796348]do you have a source without a paywall
[t]https://i.imgur.com/ec5NHws.png[/t][/QUOTE]
Turn your adblock off and there is no paywall
[B]Spanish government approves measures to strip region autonomous powers[/B]
[url]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catalonia-latest-spain-direct-rule-government-emergency-cabinet-meeting-madrid-article-155-autonomy-a8012616.html[/url]
There goes Catalonia?
I have actually no clue what will follow, just read that.
gj just proving the catalonian's point
it'll just intensify the desire for independence
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;52804898]gj just proving the catalonian's point
it'll just intensify the desire for independence[/QUOTE]
Catalonia declared independence then "paused" it 8 seconds later just to announce that they will hold talks with Madrid, Madrid put up a time limit and Catalonia didn't hold any talks so they acted.
What's their point, that they are incompetent?
Yeah, that won't make an already bad situation even worse
They are going to control directly all the public media of Catalonia as well.
This is not going to end well.
[QUOTE=Mitsuma;52804875][B]Spanish government approves measures to strip region autonomous powers[/B]
[url]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catalonia-latest-spain-direct-rule-government-emergency-cabinet-meeting-madrid-article-155-autonomy-a8012616.html[/url]
There goes Catalonia?
I have actually no clue what will follow, just read that.[/QUOTE]
There doesn't go Catalonia, there goes the catalonian's president, VP and counselors (which HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR AN ILLEGAL MOVEMENT if you didn't tune in) and they will be substituted by the appointed nation's authorities until the next ANTICIPATED ELECTIONS in less than six months (which are APPROVED and therefore LEGAL to participate on).
And after those? There will be a president, VP and counselors again, voted by the people. And if they don't fuck it up and rebel against the govt (which is the norm), they will stay until the next elections. And so and so.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;52804898]gj just proving the catalonian's point
it'll just intensify the desire for independence[/QUOTE]
What point? That they can't just wave away our constitutional system and ignore the repeated warnings of the prime minister??
[QUOTE=Coment;52805084]
What point? That they can't just wave away our constitutional system and ignore the repeated warnings of the prime minister??[/QUOTE]
You could probably count on one hand the number of nations that did use the constitutional system of a country to successfully secede. The only one that I can think of off the top of my head is Slovakia and Czechia separating.
To achieve independence, a nation usually must always break the law. There's not a central government on earth that likes to lose territory.
[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;52785044]To Spanish Facepunchers;
What is the general public perception of Catalan independence?
I was talking to my old Galician flatmate about this and she is very pro-independence for Catalonia, but she is just one person. I know the government is fucking up but what about regular folk?[/QUOTE]
Down in the south, a pretty stupid move.
Jokes about it, saying the police should have been more brutal, etc.
When people actually talk seriously about it they seem to say "Well it would affect the entire country so why can't we also vote on it?"
Shouldn't a new thread be made? Its still the old title with updated post
[QUOTE=Wazbat;52805452]Down in the south, a pretty stupid move.
Jokes about it, saying the police should have been more brutal, etc.
When people actually talk seriously about it they seem to say [b]"Well it would affect the entire country so why can't we also vote on it?"[/b][/QUOTE]
Because it isn't self-determination if others are determining for them?
[QUOTE=Coment;52805084]
What point? That they can't just wave away our constitutional system and ignore the repeated warnings of the prime minister??[/QUOTE]
The constitution is nothing more than a blocade for theor independence. It states that if there was a independence vote whole country would vote. The problem is from the get-go we know the results of every single one of them - in favour of central government. The constitution does not grand a possibility of any kind of secession. While on paper it is possible, exetution is out of the question as the constitution was made in favour of central government in Madrit.
The only way Catalonia can secede is through talks with government, but that won't happen as they've just been stripped of of their autonomy. How to create unrest in autonomic regions 101.
[QUOTE=Mifil;52806346]The constitution is nothing more than a blocade for theor independence. It states that if there was a independence vote whole country would vote. The problem is from the get-go we know the results of every single one of them - in favour of central government. [/QUOTE]
Well, didn't you want democracy? That's democracy too, having a vote and not getting your way.
Of course it's an unreasonably hard process - it shouldn't be easy unless you want another Brexit. And I'm not sure catalonians have been more informed of their future as an independent country than the british.
[QUOTE=Mifil;52806346]The only way Catalonia can secede is through talks with government, but that won't happen as they've just been stripped of of their autonomy. [/QUOTE]
And they wouldn't have "just been stripped off of their autonomy" if they had those talks with the government. (Fyi they haven't been, once they vote and get a new president they will be as autonomous as any other autonomic community (or even more since [URL="https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/catalonia-independence-declaration/542505/"]Catalonia has more privileges than any other community!![/URL]))
[QUOTE=Coment;52806588]Well, didn't you want democracy? That's democracy too, having a vote and not getting your way.
Of course it's an unreasonably hard process - it shouldn't be easy unless you want another Brexit. And I'm not sure catalonians have been more informed of their future as an independent country than the british.
And they wouldn't have "just been stripped off of their autonomy" if they had those talks with the government. (Fyi they haven't been, once they vote and get a new president they will be as autonomous as any other autonomic community (or even more since [URL="https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/catalonia-independence-declaration/542505/"]Catalonia has more privileges than any other community!![/URL]))[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=From the article you linked]
Madrid has already made its views on dialogue known. Mariano Rajoy, the Spanish prime minister, rejected talks unless the idea of Catalan independence is first abandoned—a non-starter for the present Catalan government. Madrid has also threatened to disband the Catalan parliament and charge Puigdemont and his political allies with sedition because their actions violate the Spanish constitution.
...
Ceretti said, that “there would have to be a very broad consensus on these things among parties at the national level. And that just doesn’t seem to be there.”
The first condition for that discussion, though: “Once independence plans are dropped, we can talk.”
[/QUOTE]
They aren't going to get what they are trying to get is the point. Any vote they propose is rigged against them, and any "autonomy" is still under the Spanish Government's approval.
[QUOTE=Coment;52805084]There doesn't go Catalonia, there goes the catalonian's president, VP and counselors (which HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR AN ILLEGAL MOVEMENT if you didn't tune in) and they will be substituted by the appointed nation's authorities until the next ANTICIPATED ELECTIONS in less than six months (which are APPROVED and therefore LEGAL to participate on).
And after those? There will be a president, VP and counselors again, voted by the people. And if they don't fuck it up and rebel against the govt (which is the norm), they will stay until the next elections. And so and so.
What point? That they can't just wave away our constitutional system and ignore the repeated warnings of the prime minister??[/QUOTE]
the independence movement is not illegal just the vote
the fact something is ilegal doesn't make it bad necessarily
resume discussion here [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1582969[/url]
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