[QUOTE=mobrockers2;35887524]Que?[/QUOTE]
gun control will never work in any nation because if somebody wants a gun they will acquire one. all strict gun control does is cause people to go through more dangerous loops to get what they want
You would think that this would be obvious.
[QUOTE=Sanius;35878405]that makes no sense
there's just as much a point for an illegal to own a gun as there is for a legal to own a gun
[editline]1[/editline]
idk maybe if I hated brown people I would be able to understand your viewpoint better[/QUOTE]
Do you just enter any random thread and try to find the best way to shit post?
[QUOTE=Sanius;35887767]gun control will never work in any nation because if somebody wants a gun they will acquire one. all strict gun control does is cause people to go through more dangerous loops to get what they want[/QUOTE]
Much like how gun crime is high in Japan and low in America, since the former bans guns.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35888027]Much like how gun crime is high in Japan and low in America, since the former bans guns.[/QUOTE]
you're comparing two countries with nearly polar opposite cultures
good job
[QUOTE=Sanius;35887767]gun control will never work in any nation because if somebody wants a gun they will acquire one. all strict gun control does is cause people to go through more dangerous loops to get what they want[/QUOTE]
Depends entirely on the nation.
[editline]9th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sanius;35888045]you're comparing two countries with nearly polar opposite cultures
good job[/QUOTE]
You just said it won't work in ANY nation.
[editline]9th May 2012[/editline]
Good job
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;35888047]Depends entirely on the nation.[/QUOTE]
yes you're right but my point remains, gun control is improbable and causes more problems than it aims to solve
[editline]9th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;35888047]
You just said it won't work in ANY nation.
[editline]9th May 2012[/editline]
Good job[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about gun control not violent crime with guns
Strict gun control could very well work to lower crime, as most crimes are crimes of opportunity, if you take that part away (people don't all have guns thus they can't use one in a crime of opportunity), all you are left with are, as you said yourself, the people who would've gotten a gun either way, and can't be controlled.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;35888077]Strict gun control could very well work to lower crime, as most crimes are crimes of opportunity, if you take that part away (people don't all have guns thus they can't use one in a crime of opportunity), all you are left with are, as you said yourself, the people who would've gotten a gun either way, and can't be controlled.[/QUOTE]
I don't disagree
[QUOTE=Sanius;35888061]yes you're right but my point remains, gun control is improbable and causes more problems than it aims to solve
[/QUOTE]
You do know that the USA is second in national rates of deaths by firearm, with 11.3 deaths per 100,000 in total. Of these, 6.4 per 100,000 were using their gun to check themselves out, with 4.4 using a gun to kill somebody else.
Most of Western Europe is below 1 per 100,000, including the UK, with a homicide-by-firearm rate of only 0.1.
Also there's the other perhaps reasonable idea that the infrastructure for the mass production of guns is inherently wasteful?
I am confused :psyboom:
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35888112]You do know that the USA is second in national rates of deaths by firearm, with 11.3 deaths per 100,000 in total. Of these, 6.4 per 100,000 were using their gun to check themselves out, with 4.4 using a gun to kill somebody else.
Most of Western Europe is below 1 per 100,000, including the UK, with a homicide-by-firearm rate of only 0.1.
Also there's the other perhaps reasonable idea that the infrastructure for the mass production of guns is inherently wasteful?[/QUOTE]
Maybe, and this might be a stretch, but just maybe the US has more firearm related incidents because there is a higher population and higher percentage of gun owners
[QUOTE=Protocol7;35888139]Maybe, and this might be a stretch, but just maybe the US has more firearm related incidents because there is a higher population and higher percentage of gun owners[/QUOTE]
america has the largest gun culture in the world so that probably has something to do with it
[QUOTE=Sanius;35888153]america has the largest gun culture in the world so that probably has something to do with it[/QUOTE]
Exactly
Percentages, especially per 100,000s, kinda seems like loaded statistics considering population differences and the higher frequency of gun owners in the US
More guns = more incidents, there's no denying that
[QUOTE=Protocol7;35888139]Maybe, and this might be a stretch, but just maybe the US has more firearm related incidents because there is a higher population and higher percentage of gun owners[/QUOTE]
Those stats are from the "World report on violence and health" done by the World Health Organization in 2002.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;35888166]Exactly
Percentages, especially per 100,000s, kinda seems like loaded statistics considering population differences and the higher frequency of gun owners in the US
More guns = more incidents, there's no denying that[/QUOTE]
It has nothing to do with population differences BECAUSE it's only looked at per 100,000 people, not the entire population of said country's. This means that it is an equally large (and large enough to be equal in consistency) group of people, one having more firearm related incidents than the other. The fact that there are more gun owners among those 100,000 people compared to other country's is exactly the point. The more guns, the more incidents.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;35888221]It has nothing to do with population differences BECAUSE it's only looked at per 100,000 people, not the entire population of said country's. This means that it is an equally large (and large enough to be equal in consistency) group of people, one having more firearm related incidents than the other. The fact that there are more gun owners among those 100,000 people compared to other country's is exactly the point. The more guns, the more incidents.[/QUOTE]
It has everything to do with population differences. There are 311 million people in the US, a sample size of 100,000 is less significant than a sample size of 100,000 in the UK.
I don't think looking at 100,000 people is an accurate gauge of firearm incidents.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;35888260]It has everything to do with population differences. There are 311 million people in the US, a sample size of 100,000 is less significant than a sample size of 100,000 in the UK.
I don't think looking at 100,000 people is an accurate gauge of firearm incidents.[/QUOTE]
Please do explain what it matters how large the complete thing is as long as the test size is equal and large enough?
I don't think we understand statistics enough to be talking about them
gunfox or xenocidebot to the rescue
Shouldn't this have been noted down since the beggining?
You know, "People who enter our country illegally shouldn't be allowed to be here. Or work here. Or have guns."
Then again if they jumped the fence they probably have a guy to get them guns.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;35888330]Please do explain what it matters how large the complete thing is as long as the test size is equal and large enough?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Protocol7;35888260]It has everything to do with population differences. [B]There are 311 million people in the US, a sample size of 100,000 is less significant than a sample size of 100,000 in the UK.[/B]
I don't think looking at 100,000 people is an accurate gauge of firearm incidents.[/QUOTE]
There is every reason to believe that the results could be skewed because one test sample had more firearms than another would.
They aren't legally here in the first place and should be out of here. Why do we need laws like this to say they're even more illegal than they already were?
[QUOTE=Protocol7;35888352]There is every reason to believe that the results could be skewed because one test sample had more firearms than another would.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you understand the point we're trying to make here is. I suggest read this page again and then realize that one sample having more firearms than the other is the very thing we're talking about here.
[QUOTE=power-mad;35888368]They aren't legally here in the first place and should be out of here.[/QUOTE]
why?
I've never seen anybody support this view without using appeals to authority
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;35888385]I don't think you understand the point we're trying to make here is. I suggest read this page again and then realize that one sample having more firearms than the other is the very thing we're talking about here.[/QUOTE]
I know that the United States has more firearms on a percentage basis. I'm saying statistics on a per 100,000 test sample isn't an accurate gauge on how many people are fatally injured due to firearms. 100,000 people is only ~1/3130 of the United States while 100,000 people is ~1/620 of the UK.
I'm not disputing the fact that the US has more firearms on a percentage basis. I'm saying that a test sample of 100,000 isn't a large enough test sample to accurately gauge the percentage of firearm-related fatalities in the US.
The thing that worries me is that the courts declare that immigrants only have limited protection under the constitution. I agree with the restrictions in this case, but I'm worried that "limited protection" can be abused in the future.
if the constitution applies to everybody regardless of their citizenship status, wouldn't this law be unconstitutional?
[QUOTE=Sanius;35889326]if the constitution applies to everybody regardless of their citizenship status, wouldn't this law be unconstitutional?[/QUOTE]
Yes.
The Supreme Court is the only court that really decides constitutionality.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35890151]Yes.
The Supreme Court is the only court that really decides constitutionality.[/QUOTE]
I figured as much. I doubt this will ever be ruled unconstitutional because of the backlash from racist politicians
[QUOTE=Sanius;35890164]I figured as much. I doubt this will ever be ruled unconstitutional because of the backlash from racist politicians[/QUOTE]
You seem to under a deluded belief that every white person is in a giant secret racist conspiracy against everybody else.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;35890333]You seem to under a deluded belief that every white person is in a giant secret racist conspiracy against everybody else.[/QUOTE]
Considering the pointlessness of the rule, and the fact that the response to illegal immigration and the response to illegal immigration plus firearm is roughly the same if no other crimes are committed (deportation), the ruling is entirely arbitrary and seems to have absolutely no other justification but xenophobia.
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