[QUOTE=lavacano;36033096]Another of those rules is "Don't break into another man's house." I highly doubt the guy who just broke in is going to say "oh well killing is against the rules so i wont do it!"[/QUOTE]
And we have police for that, cowboy.
[editline]20th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=catbarf;36032834]The law itself means nothing to would-be criminals, obviously. The enforcement of said law has next to no chance of actually catching a random mugger based solely on the victim's description. There is little to fear for the criminal besides what the victim might do in defense.[/QUOTE]
Which is why we have fucking police.
[editline]20th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=catbarf;36032787]Yeah, clearly a willingness to defend oneself during a home invasion and a willingness to shoot anyone and everyone are the exact same thing. Self-defense, wanton mass-murder- if you can't tell the difference it may be for the best that you choose to be unarmed.[/QUOTE]
It isn't self defense if you aren't fucking being attacked.
Shooting someone who just breaks into your house is not self defense.
[editline]20th May 2012[/editline]
Listen, bandidos. We have a society. We have laws and law enforcers. It is not your job to lay down the law, Mr. Castle.
[QUOTE=catbarf;36033021]A lot of crimes go safer on everyone if nobody tries to stop it. That doesn't mean they're justified. Do you get annoyed when you see videos of store owners defending themselves against robbers instead of just hiding in a corner?[/QUOTE]
Who said anything about the crimes being justified? Of course they aren't justified. that's why they're punishable by law.
And no, I don't get annoyed at store owners who defend themselves. They're put in high stress situations which affect their ability to make decisions. That doesn't make it the smart thing to do, or the right thing to do.
[QUOTE=catbarf;36033021]
That's something of a stretch considering what I'm suggesting is literally [I]defending[/I] one's [I]self[/I].[/QUOTE]
You defend yourself after putting yourself in a situation where you're more likely to be forced to defend yourself. I was referring to the actions that put you into that situation. Such as pulling out a gat.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36033115]And we have police for that, cowboy.[/QUOTE]
And if I grab my phone and call 911, by the time the police show up he'll have either gotten away with whatever it is he came to steal, or I'll be dead.
The police are useful but they are [b]not[/b] enough by themselves.
[QUOTE=lavacano;36033243]And if I grab my phone and call 911, by the time the police show up he'll have either gotten away with whatever it is he came to steal, or I'll be dead.[/QUOTE]
Why would burglars kill you? (in the US)
[QUOTE=James*;36033316]Why would burglars kill you? (in the US)[/QUOTE]
Because he heard me call 911? Or it's some girl's exboyfriend that I managed to piss off maybe?
I don't know exactly why, I'm not a criminal. But you can't take chances, even in the first world.
[QUOTE=lavacano;36033512]Because he heard me call 911? Or it's some girl's exboyfriend that I managed to piss off maybe?
I don't know exactly why, I'm not a criminal. But you can't take chances, even in the first world.[/QUOTE]
Why would they come and kill you if you were calling 911, I'm pretty sure they would just run
You seem to be quite paranoid, you should probably relax as it's incredibly unlikely something like that will happen especially as you are not a criminal
It would be more risky for you to have a gun for 'defense purposes' as that's far more likely to get someone killed
[QUOTE=Lankist;36027096]They're also being put very much to the test as more and more people die over fucking stereos and televisions.[/QUOTE]
And? I intend to shoot anyone who dares to raid my dwelling when I'm there, and there isn't damn thing you, them, or the police can do about it.
[editline]20th May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lankist;36033115]And we have police for that, cowboy.[/QUOTE]
Yeah bro, you keep believing that. Come back when you've gotten violently beaten and the assailants long gone by the time the police arrive, and having some asshole try to run you over while you're walking around your town.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;36033571]
Yeah bro, you keep believing that. Come back when you gotten violently beaten and the assailants long gone by the time the police arrive, and 911 sure as fuck didn't help me when some asshole tried to run me down despite the fact there was a cop less than 100 meters away.[/QUOTE]
Would it have been better if you had got into a gunfight in which at least one of you got killed?
[QUOTE=Lankist;36031161]Thankfully we don't live in fucking Fallujah. We live in a society that has rules. One of those rules is that killing people is bad. Killing people for money is worse.
And home invasions RARELY end in violence. Most people who break into homes are looking to steal, not to kill, you paranoid schizophrenic. You can replace your fucking stereo when they leave. You can't replace a life.
If they come at you with a knife, you can fucking defend yourself. But you do not cowboy up and shoot anyone and everyone that you don't fucking know. That kind of stupid wild west bullshit is how dumbass parents end up shooting their own kids in the middle of the night (which happens at a frighteningly higher rate than an actual violent home invasion.)[/QUOTE]
Why would I want to replace the life of someone who busted down my door and decided to steal all my shit I spent months saving money to buy?
If you value possessions over human life you can't really be reasoned with
[QUOTE=Broseph_;36033659]Why would I want to replace the life of someone who busted down my door and decided to steal all my shit I spent months saving money to buy?[/QUOTE]
It's called insurances, normal people have those.
[QUOTE=James*;36033568]It would be more risky for you to have a gun for 'defense purposes' as that's far more likely to get someone killed[/QUOTE]
Not really.
What I've noticed is no matter how much people talk shit, the chances of them actually acting on it in a public setting is astronomically low if it even looks like you can defend yourself (with exceptions). If I carried a gun, I wouldn't even need to keep it loaded - people will back the fuck off.
In a private setting (house), then the fucker shouldn't be there in the first place. My preferred action would be "Shoot in leg, then get behind cover and call 911". [b]Then[/b] the cops have plenty of time to show up, the burglar can't do shit, and I'm perfectly fine.
But what's more likely to happen is I'd grab a gun then go to the shooting range with it, then keep it in a pocket or something and forget it's there 99% of the time.
[QUOTE=James*;36033637]Would it have been better if you had got into a gunfight in which at least one of you got killed?[/QUOTE]
Yes, that is if the asshole in ether of those two incidents had firearms, which the first obviously didn't, and that asshole who tried to run me down would more than likely be dead since I have the advantage of being on foot, above him, and not being confined to a seat.
Whats being debated here? your right to defend yourself with a gun?
[QUOTE=lavacano;36033512]Because he heard me call 911? Or it's some girl's exboyfriend that I managed to piss off maybe?
I don't know exactly why, I'm not a criminal. But you can't take chances, even in the first world.[/QUOTE]
you're more likely to die from a stroke
[QUOTE=lavacano;36033729]In a private setting (house), then the fucker shouldn't be there in the first place. My preferred action would be "Shoot in leg, then get behind cover and call 911". [b]Then[/b] the cops have plenty of time to show up, the burglar can't do shit, and I'm perfectly fine.[/QUOTE]
What if they see you coming and shoot first? If there's more than one of them? There's endless variables that make it not that simple. What if you miss and kill them and find out it was just a kid or something, I'm sure you'd feel guilty as hell
I'm sure your loved ones would prefer you to just call the police. Even if you just held down your immediate room/floor whilst armed it would still be safer than going in armed
[QUOTE=James*;36033679]If you value possessions over human life you can't really be reasoned with[/QUOTE]
I value my family's safety and preventing them from harm over their life. At the end of the day if you break into someone's home where they live, sleep, eat and intend to steal/hurt them for your own pleasure, then you get what your asking for. The easier way to avoid home shootings is for people to just not break into homes but that will not ever happen. As long as people are breaking into a house to kill, steal or rape I will have my 12 Gauge locked up in my closet in my room and I will use it to defend myself, my family and my property from harm.
[QUOTE=Broseph_;36033761]Yes, that is if the asshole in ether of those two incidents had firearms, which the first obviously didn't, and that asshole who tried to run me down would more than likely be dead since I have the advantage of being on foot, above him, and not being confined to a seat.[/QUOTE]
Not quite sure what you're getting at but the point is you are alive which may not be the case if guns were involved
[editline]21st May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Gundevil;36033850]I value my family's safety and preventing them from harm over their life. At the end of the day if you break into someone's home where they live, sleep, eat and intend to steal/hurt them for your own pleasure, then you get what your asking for. The easier way to avoid home shootings is for people to just not break into homes but that will not ever happen. As long as people are breaking into a house to kill, steal or rape I will have my 12 Gauge locked up in my closet in my room and I will use it to defend myself, my family and my property from harm.[/QUOTE]
see above post
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36033691]It's called insurances, normal people have those.[/QUOTE]
Wow, instead of simply spending 8 dollars on a box of ammo, I get to add yet another fucking bill to my already strained budget, good plan.
[QUOTE=James*;36033816]What if they see you coming and shoot first?[/quote]
That's a risk I'm willing to take in order to make sure justice is properly served.
[quote]If there's more than one of them?[/quote]
It can still be done, just more difficult. And even if one or more escape, then I've almost guaranteed got at least one of them ready to be carted out.
[quote]What if you miss and kill them[/quote]
sucks to be them
[quote]and find out it was just a kid or something[/quote]
Even in the dark it's not that difficult to tell the difference between an adult and a child.
[quote]I'm sure you'd feel guilty as hell[/quote]
not really
[quote]I'm sure your loved ones would prefer you to just call the police.[/QUOTE]
That's funny, I don't remember you being one of my "loved ones". Don't make assumptions about people you've never met.
[QUOTE=lavacano;36033884]That's a risk I'm willing to take in order to make sure justice is properly served.
It can still be done, just more difficult. And even if one or more escape, then I've almost guaranteed got at least one of them ready to be carted out.
sucks to be them
Even in the dark it's not that difficult to tell the difference between an adult and a child.
not really
That's funny, I don't remember you being one of my "loved ones". Don't make assumptions about people you've never met.[/QUOTE]
I think you overestimate your own abilities and your cavalier approach would probably see yourself killed among others
I was just assuming people would rather see you lose your TV than end up killed or in jail. Sorry if that's not the case but I think that reflects on them more than me
[editline]21st May 2012[/editline]
You also sound like a bit of a sociopath so I refer you to my previous post
[QUOTE=James*;36033679]If you value possessions over human life you can't really be reasoned with[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=James*;36033861]Not quite sure what you're getting at but the point is you are alive which may not be the case if guns were involved[/QUOTE]
Mugger armed with a gun?
Give him my money then shoot him in the fucking back while he's running away since there's no obligation under state law that the asshole who just robbed me at gunpoint be facing me when I cap his ass.
Guy trying to run me over in his car?
Mag dump into him before he even has time to take one of his hands off his steering wheel to go for a gun.
Gun kicking down my fucking door I already had to replace once?
If 5.56x45mm NATO is good enough for the police gun down people with, it's good enough for me.
Also using a fucking gun is far more humane for the asshole and safer for me than having to defend my self with my 4 inch folder.
[QUOTE=lavacano;36033729]Not really.
What I've noticed is no matter how much people talk shit, the chances of them actually acting on it in a public setting is astronomically low if it even looks like you can defend yourself (with exceptions). If I carried a gun, I wouldn't even need to keep it loaded - people will back the fuck off.
In a private setting (house), then the fucker shouldn't be there in the first place. My preferred action would be "Shoot in leg, then get behind cover and call 911". [B]Then[/B] the cops have plenty of time to show up, the burglar can't do shit, and I'm perfectly fine.
But what's more likely to happen is I'd grab a gun then go to the shooting range with it, then keep it in a pocket or something and forget it's there 99% of the time.[/QUOTE]
Not even cops (who are trained with a gun regularly) aim for limbs, you're a joke if you think you're going to hit someone in the leg.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36033115]Which is why we have fucking police.[/QUOTE]
Police aren't perfect and can't be everywhere at once. Have you ever wondered why there is such thing as a 'citizen's arrest'? Sometimes it's up to civilians to do the job when police aren't present. I sure as hell am not going to risk my own safety for the sake of some criminal so I can twiddle my thumbs while waiting for the police.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36033115]It isn't self defense if you aren't fucking being attacked.[/QUOTE]
Right, because being mugged at knifepoint [i]clearly[/i] isn't being attacked. You can't draw a gun until the knife is sticking out of your chest. Makes perfect sense.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36033115]Shooting someone who just breaks into your house is not self defense.[/QUOTE]
Which is why most states in the US do not simply allow you to shoot anyone who enters your home. If they present a threat, however, you are well within your right to kill them. That's self defense.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36034013]Not even cops (who are trained with a gun regularly) aim for limbs, you're a joke if you think you're going to hit someone in the leg.[/QUOTE]
Center-Mass. All day, everyday.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;36034013]Not even cops (who are trained with a gun regularly) aim for limbs, you're a joke if you think you're going to hit someone in the leg.[/QUOTE]
Too many wannabe action men who have seen too many movies
[QUOTE=lavacano;36033729]NMy preferred action would be "Shoot in leg, then get behind cover and call 911".[/QUOTE]
You would most likely receive a nice prison sentence. If someone threatens your life, you shoot to kill. If you're trying to pull off trick shots to merely wound them, all you're doing is telling the court that your life wasn't really in danger and using a firearm was a matter of convenience more than anything else. Never draw a weapon without intent to use it if necessary, and never use it without intent to kill.
Not to mention the unnecessary suffering you're causing the intruder. He may forfeit his right to live by attacking you, but at the very least he deserves to be killed quickly and cleanly rather than agonizingly bleeding out on the floor because you clipped the femoral artery.
[QUOTE=James*;36033932]You also sound like a bit of a sociopath[/quote]
I read that a fair bit on Facepunch, and I probably am to some extent. I do understand your "human life" argument though, and I don't think you're an idiot for trying to get through life with zero bloodshed. However, it's not always possible.
[quote]so I refer you to my previous post[/QUOTE]
See part of the reason I try to shoot them in the leg is because it's non-fatal, and yet it's a show stopper for the other guy. If I outright killed him, he won't learn. If he doesn't learn, I haven't fixed the problem. And I'm interested in fixing the problem above all else.
[QUOTE=lavacano;36034076]I read that a fair bit on Facepunch, and I probably am to some extent. I do understand your "human life" argument though, and I don't think you're an idiot for trying to get through life with zero bloodshed. However, it's not always possible.
See part of the reason I try to shoot them in the leg is because it's non-fatal, and yet it's a show stopper for the other guy. If I outright killed him, he won't learn. If he doesn't learn, I haven't fixed the problem. And I'm interested in fixing the problem above all else.[/QUOTE]
Easier said than done. And I don't believe you when you say you wouldn't care if you killed them
[QUOTE=lavacano;36034076]See part of the reason I try to shoot them in the leg is because it's non-fatal, and yet it's a show stopper for the other guy. If I outright killed him, he won't learn. If he doesn't learn, I haven't fixed the problem. And I'm interested in fixing the problem above all else.[/QUOTE]
A shot to the leg is non-incapacitating. If the guy has a gun he will very easily be able to return fire, and if he's on coke or amphetamines he might not even drop. Aiming for the leg instead of center mass is simply reckless and much more likely to result in you getting killed.
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