[QUOTE=faze;35880676]Read the link you lazy bastard. The laws are already in there. Use Google to find out more. It's easy, you should really try it one day.[/QUOTE]
Then you can cite the laws mentioned in the link.
Or did you even read your own goddamn link?
[QUOTE=faze;35880607]I'd love to find out how somebody with no social security number can do that.[/QUOTE]
According to some research I had to do for a debate meet, Illegal immigrants usually use fake SS numbers to report pay and the like. This is actually a good thing, mind you, because it means they're paying into the system.
[QUOTE=wizardsbane;35880691]According to some research I had to do for a debate meet, Illegal immigrants usually use fake SS numbers to report pay and the like. This is actually a good thing, mind you, because it means they're paying into the system.[/QUOTE]
How does the IRS not pick up on that?
[QUOTE=Lankist;35880686]Then you can cite the laws mentioned in the link.
Or did you even read your own goddamn link?[/QUOTE]
I can't argue with you anymore. You seem to be trolling.
[QUOTE=GunFox;35879539]Of dishwashing, picking fruit, and odd jobs. Oh no.
Such as? They almost universally don't call emergency services for any reason and don't have the necessary documentation to utilize other government benefits.
Employers automatically deduct taxes in most cases. Employers with illegal immigrants in particular have to appear to be operating as intended on paper.
Which means that not only do they pay taxes, but they actually pay more than their income bracket would likely need to pay since they can't file for returns.
Protections of the constitution should be provided to everyone within our borders. It is an all or nothing deal, you don't get to choose.[/QUOTE]
My father and I are forced to work with numerous contractors who use illegal immigrants almost exclusively mostly because they can slip by paying taxes for them, and at severely reduced pay, so even if they have to pay taxes, it's way lower than a citizen's.
And [b]why[/b] should constitutional rights be enforced on illegal immigrants? They should get the rights of whichever country they came from until they apply for citizenship, sort of like diplomatic immunity.(not entirely sure how diplomatic immunity works, though, so feel free to correct me on that comparison)
[QUOTE=Lankist;35880670]I'm Mestizo, I derive from Central America.
My family lived in Texas before it was annexed.[/QUOTE]
And where do you live now?
Because if it's anywhere but texas you're an illegal immigrant.
[QUOTE=faze;35880703]How does the IRS not pick up on that?
I can't argue with you anymore. You seem to be trolling.[/QUOTE]
If you're making an argument it's sort of your job to provide specific evidence
[QUOTE=faze;35880703]How does the IRS not pick up on that?[/QUOTE]
The IRS probably does, but they are bound to not share any information they collect with any other agency (they might be able to share it if you are independently arrested for a crime they can provide evidence of, not sure). They can only get you for tax evasion and the like.
[QUOTE=faze;35880703]I can't argue with you anymore. You seem to be trolling.[/QUOTE]
Not trolling. I want you to back your fucking "it's the law" argument up by displaying even a rudimentary fucking understanding of the law.
As it stands, you don't even know what fucking law you're talking about, so why the fuck should anyone accept that argument?
[QUOTE=James*;35880671]It's not really the fault of illegals that some unscrupulous employers don't follow labour laws or don't pay minimum wage[/QUOTE]
No but my point is that if they weren't here in the first place they'd have to hire Americans.
I'm not saying we shouldn't let them in. I'm saying that they should fucking do it legally.
[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;35880730]No but my point is that if they weren't here in the first place they'd have to hire Americans.
I'm not saying we shouldn't let them in. I'm saying that they should fucking do it legally.[/QUOTE]
Why should Americans have priority
[QUOTE=faze;35880703]How does the IRS not pick up on that?
I can't argue with you anymore. You seem to be trolling.[/QUOTE]
Assuming this is correct: [url]https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ourfiscalsecurity.org%2Fstorage%2Finfographic_FRI_D5.pdf[/url]
We can't catch every person who evades taxes, just like we can't check and go after every person using a fake SSN.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35880675]More specific, please.[/QUOTE]
It details the penalty for violators of various other transportation related laws. Specifically, sections 30112, 30115, 30117-30122, 30123(d), 30125(c), 30127, or 30141-30147
[QUOTE=Lankist;35880686]Then you can cite the laws mentioned in the link.
Or did you even read your own goddamn link?[/QUOTE]
[quote=US Law]
It is Illegal To Bring Illegal Aliens Into US under current Laws
It is unlawful for any person to bring aliens into the United States. Fine: $3,000 for each alien (Sec. 273. [8 U.S.C. 1323])
It is Illegal To Harbor Illegal Immigrants
. It is unlawful to bring in or harbor illegal aliens. Fine: $3,000 for each alien. (Sec. 273. [8 U.S.C. 1323] )
It is Illegal To Employ, Recruit, or Refer Illegal Aliens for Jobs
. It is unlawful for a person or other entity- to employ or recruit or refer for a fee an illegal alien in the United States. Commercial advantage or private financial gain offender can be fined under title 18, US code, imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both. ...Any person who, during any 12-month period, knowingly hires for employment at least 10 individuals with actual knowledge that the individuals are aliens described in sub paragraph (B) shall be fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both. (Sec. 274A. [8 U.S.C. 1324a] )
It is Illegal To Forge Documents for Illegal Immigrants or violate Identity Theft Laws
. It is unlawful for any person or entity knowingly- to forge documents. Legal documents must be presented when entering the US.
( Sec. 274C. [8 U.S.C. 1324c] )
...Fine: not less than $250 and not more than $2,000 for each document that is the subject of a violation.
...Previous violation: not less than $2,000 and not more than $5,000 for each document that is the subject of a violation.
US Laws Declare it is Illegal To Aid or Abet Illegal Immigrants
. It is unlawful for anyone to aid or assist aliens to enter the United States. Penalty: fined under title 18, United States Code, or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both. ( Sec. 277. [8 U.S.C. 1327] )
LEGAL Immigrants Must Know English, US History, US Laws, and Principles
. No person shall be naturalized as a citizen of the United States who cannot demonstrate: ... An understanding of the English language, including the ability to read, write and and speak words in ordinary usage in the English language.
... A knowledge and understanding of history, and of the principles and form of government, of the United States. ( Sec. 312. [8 U.S.C. 1423] )
Legal Immigrants Must Display Moral Character and No Crime Record
. Requirements as to residence, good moral character, attachment to the principles of the constitution, and favorable disposition to the Untied States. ( Sec. 316. [8 U.S.C. 1427] )
Legal Immigrants Must Be Investigated and Screened for past crimes and terrorism links
. Prior to a person becoming naturalized, or an employee of the service, a personal investigation is required of the individual applying.
( Sec. 335. [8 U.S.C. 1446] )
It is Illegal For Illegal Aliens to Bypass Medical and Physical Exams for illnesses and infectious diseases
. Physical and Mental Examinations are required.
Aliens arriving at ports of the United States will be detained for the purpose of determining whether they are afflicted with any of the diseases or mental or physical defects or disabilities set forth in section 212(a), or whenever the Attorney General has received information showing that any aliens are coming from a country or have embarked at a place where any of such diseases are prevalent or epidemic.
( Sec. 232 [8 U.S.C. 1252] )
Illegal Aliens Deported are ineligible for readmission to US Under Current Laws
. Distressed Aliens:
Any alien who falls into distress or who needs public aid from causes arising prior to his/her entry is desirous of being so removed. Any alien so removed shall be ineligible to apply for or receive a visa or other documentation for readmission, or to apply for admission to the United States except with the prior approval of the Attorney General.
( Sec. 250. [8 U.S.C. 1260] )
It is Illegal for Illegal Immigrants to possess a firearm or ammunition
. It is unlawful for an alien illegally in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a non immigrant visa to legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition. ( [18 U.S.C. 922(g) and (n), 27 CFR 478.32] )
[/quote]
There ya go buddy.
[QUOTE=James*;35880745]Why should Americans have priority[/QUOTE]
Because we're citizens and they are not. We were born here and they were not. They are here ILLEGALLY. That means it is UNLAWFUL. They are breaking the law. We are not.
[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;35880730]I'm not saying we shouldn't let them in. I'm saying that they should fucking do it legally.[/QUOTE]
It is currently impossible for anyone to immigrate legally who does not have an education, marketable skills, or otherwise has a "cheat" to a greencard. If they DO, it takes 10-20 years to attain citizenship.
There is no "legal" immigration for the people who come over here to work low-income jobs.
[QUOTE=James*;35880745]Why should Americans have priority[/QUOTE]
Because we're citizens of this country.
[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;35880730]No but my point is that if they weren't here in the first place they'd have to hire Americans.
I'm not saying we shouldn't let them in. I'm saying that they should fucking do it legally.[/QUOTE]
Would you agree with making legal immigration much, much easier and cheaper?
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;35880760]Would you agree with making illegal immigration much, much easier and cheaper?[/QUOTE]
Sure.
[QUOTE=faze;35880754]There ya go buddy.[/QUOTE]
None of those laws establish that illegal immigration is illegal in the first place.
You said the law says they don't belong here.
What I see is "immigrants must have a rudimentary understanding of English" and "harboring an illegal immigrant is a criminal act."
None of those laws are the laws you cited which imply they "do not belong here."
I want you to find the law stating that it is illegal to enter this country without permission. I don't know how many fucking times I'm going to have to tell you this before you stop spewing conservative bullshit propaganda websites at me.
[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;35880756]Because we're citizens and they are not. We were born here and they were not. They are here ILLEGALLY. That means it is UNLAWFUL. They are breaking the law. We are not.[/QUOTE]
What makes being born there so special, seems a bit unfair
[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;35880730]No but my point is that if they weren't here in the first place they'd have to hire Americans.
I'm not saying we shouldn't let them in. I'm saying that they should fucking do it legally.[/QUOTE]
Why.
What gives someone born in America born more rights than someone born somewhere else.
Why should someone be given a free ride into America just because they happened to be born here.
Legally immigrating is a very long and hard process that is not possible for many people who want to live in or work in America.
[QUOTE=James*;35880782]What makes being born there so special, seems a bit unfair[/QUOTE]
Life sucks.
[QUOTE=James*;35880782]What makes being born there so special, seems a bit unfair[/QUOTE]
US Precedence does not favor birthrights, FYI.
Sort of like how we said a man does not get to call himself king simply due to which vagina he comes from.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35880774]None of those laws establish that illegal immigration is illegal in the first place.
You said the law says they don't belong here.
What I see is "immigrants must have a rudimentary understanding of English" and "harboring an illegal immigrant is a criminal act."
None of those laws are the laws you cited which imply they "do not belong here."
I want you to find the law stating that it is illegal to enter this country without permission. I don't know how many fucking times I'm going to have to tell you this before you stop spewing conservative bullshit propaganda websites at me.[/QUOTE]
8 U.S.C. § 1325
[quote]
(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to
enter) the United States at a time or place other than as
designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil
penalty of -
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not
in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud
Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the
purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be
imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than
$250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud
Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise
for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws
shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance
with title 18, or both.
[/quote]
[QUOTE=faze;35880791]Life sucks.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, that's your argument?
Then why do you think we should even ENFORCE immigration laws?
Life sucks! Fuck the laws! ANARCHY!
It's not like people being born in America earned it, it's geographical pot luck
Why should you get priority over someone possibly more qualified than you because of where you were born
[QUOTE=Lankist;35880757]It is currently impossible for anyone to immigrate legally who does not have an education, marketable skills, or otherwise has a "cheat" to a greencard. If they DO, it takes 10-20 years to attain citizenship.
There is no "legal" immigration for the people who come over here to work low-income jobs.[/QUOTE]
If they do not have an education and do not have working skills they should. not. be. here.
We have ENOUGH of those as it is. We have TOO MANY people with little to no education and little to no skills WITHOUT illegal immigrants who also fit that description making it worse.
Also, you can work legally in the states while getting citizenship. Same goes for education. My aunt-by-marriage lived in the United States for upwards of 30 years on a green card with working visas working at Disney and getting a college degree. She was educated before she came here, she came over as an international exchange student and decided to stay.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35880792]US Precedence does not favor birthrights, FYI.
Sort of like how we said a man does not get to call himself king simply due to which vagina he comes from.[/QUOTE]
But you get automatic citizenship
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;35880760]Would you agree with making legal immigration much, much easier and cheaper?[/QUOTE]
I'd agree with making it an easier and faster process but I don't agree with making the guidelines any more lenient than they already are. As I've stated before we do not need additional unskilled people milling around adding to the ever expanding pool of worthless people.
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