• Hillary won the popular vote by over 150,000 votes.
    185 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51341307]We democrats need ti stand together and try our damnedest to get the electoral college abolished. Write your representative. Pass out flyers. Protest outside your town hall. Spread the word to every American[/QUOTE] Congratulations you just made the cities the only areas that matter in elections. Suburban districts, rural families, none of them will matter in a direct democracy you dolt. No one will give a shit about anything else other than New York City, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Miami, Seattle, Boston, and every major metropolitan area. You just made a system even worse than the last one.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51341917]Congratulations you just made the cities the only areas that matter in elections. Suburban districts, rural families, none of them will matter in a direct democracy you dolt. No one will give a shit about anything else other than New York City, San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Miami, Seattle, Boston, and every major metropolitan area. You just made a system even worse than the last one.[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;7wC42HgLA4k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wC42HgLA4k[/video] Watch this video, it reputes everything you said about cities. Don't just abolish the EC though. Switch to a PR and STV system.
wew i'm late Got beaten by BlackMageMari As for the video go to 3:18
[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;51341353]This time however the problem is the tyranny of the minority on the majority. Why should my vote as a Californian be worth less than the vote of some random farmer whose whole subsistence is in the town in bumfuck Nebraska?[/QUOTE] Because holy shit the fucking electoral college is based on population. The entirety of California has more electoral votes than a third of the country combined, your vote is already worth more than theirs. If Clinton had less popular votes and won through the EC you'd see the fucking Trumpets spouting the same bullshit you are.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51341870]I think trump supporters don't mind a bit that they won through this bullshit so anyone complaining about this obvious perversion of democracy is just going to be derided as a "sore loser"[/QUOTE] It wasn't democracy that failed it was your political party inciting a divide between the right and left. They made a gamble on the "old crazy white man" being a small enough group now that they would be able to sweep in. Guess what, it didn't fucking work and now you have people on both sides who would rather cry about how they don't like someone based on their political vote. The reason people think you're a sore loser isn't because you're isn't because you think your candidate should have won, it's because you are whining that the system is corrupt and insinuating that your opposition are cheaters. The fact of the matter is, like it or not, that they played the system you have better than your party did. They appealed to a wider POLITICAL PROPORTION than your party. Complaining that this election is a perversion of democracy is like if we Canadians complained that our new leader wasn't a fucking king. THE UNITED STATES IS NOT A DEMOCRACY. YOU CANNOT CRY AND MAKE IT A DEMOCRACY. YOU HAVE TO RAISE AWARENESS AND GIVE A SHIT WHEN IT'S NOT AN ELECTION. Complain all you want. No one is gonna go "oh wait shit hes right" and put Clinton into power. I hate Trump
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51341794]Facepunch isn't a newspaper. Don't like the news, go to another site. Just the way it is.[/QUOTE] I could also do both while calling out its bullshit over here out of my love for a better facepunch
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51341907]This isn't the electoral college's job. The electoral college's [I]job[/I] was to function as representative democracy in a time when counting all the votes was impractical. That is no longer an issue. The electoral college voting counter to the popular vote is not representative democracy, it's oligarchy.[/QUOTE] That isn't it's purpose at all. It's purpose is to protect the integrity and interests of the republic as a whole.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;51341954]It wasn't democracy that failed it was your political party inciting a divide between the right and left. They made a gamble on the "old crazy white man" being a small enough group now that they would be able to sweep in. Guess what, it didn't fucking work and now you have people on both sides who would rather cry about how they don't like someone based on their political vote. The reason people think you're a sore loser isn't because you're isn't because you think your candidate should have won, it's because you are whining that the system is corrupt and insinuating that your opposition are cheaters. The fact of the matter is, like it or not, that they played the system you have better than your party did. They appealed to a wider POLITICAL PROPORTION than your party. Complaining that this election is a perversion of democracy is like if we Canadians complained that our new leader wasn't a fucking king. THE UNITED STATES IS NOT A DEMOCRACY. YOU CANNOT CRY AND MAKE IT A DEMOCRACY. YOU HAVE TO RAISE AWARENESS AND GIVE A SHIT WHEN IT'S NOT AN ELECTION. Complain all you want. No one is gonna go "oh wait shit hes right" and put Clinton into power. I hate Trump[/QUOTE] I hate Clinton. She was not my first pick. The Democratic Party is not "my party".
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51341822]I find it hard to believe the sudden uproar about the electoral system [I]after[/I] the election has much to do with people having issues with it more than there issue with the fact that Clinton lost.[/QUOTE] You can't go around being outraged all day. I've been posting about FPTP (and by extension the electoral college) the whole year, though - it just happens that the thing that people have been complaining about happened [I]a-fucking-gain[/I]. That's why people are mad right now. Even if the electoral college had turned in an undue Trump loss, I would at the very least point out its bullshit once more. I'd be relieved, sure, but why would I endorse something that made the Bush presidency happen back in 2000?
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;51341975]I hate Clinton. She was not my first pick. The Democratic Party is not "my party".[/QUOTE] Total independents got like 1.8% of the polls. They sure had a chance
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;51341818]because that would create an imbalance in the election cycle and would mean political candidates would only really focus on appealing to those 5 big states as non of the others would matter. it wouldn't solve your problem it would change why it happens[/QUOTE] The President of the United States should be representative of the majority of all Americans regardless of where they happen to live, because there's only one seat available, and the President is largely the chief Diplomat. The House and Senate seats should be representative of the populations of the states they represent, given each state often has many House seats and two Senate seats. The current system does not do this. The current system, at the presidential level is plagued by the electoral college system and FPTP making third parties spoilers, and should be replaced by a single, nationwide, Instant-runoff vote. The current system, at the congressional level is plagued by gerrymandering and redistricting, which should be replaced by a single state wide Single Transferable Vote system to award proportional representation to the people of the state. But, of course, the people in power are the people who benefit from the current system, especially at the congressional level, so the chance anything will be done is extremely unlikely.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;51341980]Total independents got like 1.8% of the polls. They sure had a chance[/QUOTE] They aren't my party, either. I begrudgingly supported Clinton when Sanders lost the nomination. That's it. I have been complaining about the electoral college for a long time. This is just another piece of evidence that it's retarded.
[QUOTE=Cabbage;51341589]Stop throwing your toys out of the pram and blaming the system that literally gave you the right to have a say.[/QUOTE] what an utterly abysmal argument that's like going to the hospital, and when you complain that you're being treated by someone in plague doctor attire using 16th century medicine techniques, they respond with "shut the fuck up lmao you're getting treatment aren't you" just because the system gives you a "say" (whatever that means), doesn't mean the system is somehow beyond improvement
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51341946]Because holy shit the fucking electoral college is based on population. The entirety of California has more electoral votes than a third of the country combined, your vote is already worth more than theirs. [/QUOTE] This is patently false. An individual vote is not worth more because there's more people in the state, that's not how it works. A Republican in Cali has a far, far lower chance of influencing the results of an election than a Republican in Florida. That's just how fptp works.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;51341980]Total independents got like 1.8% of the polls. They sure had a chance[/QUOTE] Are you so ignorant that you can't fathom why this is? Voting third party is a vote for the opposition in a FPTP world (unless you couldn't stomach the other party either). The rational voter votes for the party that most closely resembling themselves, but only if it has a shot at winning.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51341933][video=youtube;7wC42HgLA4k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wC42HgLA4k[/video] Watch this video, it reputes everything you said about cities. Don't just abolish the EC though. Switch to a PR and STV system.[/QUOTE] That video assumes every single citizen of voting age, or the entire population, will vote. The total population stated in that video is 309 million, but in this election only a total of 125,040,961 people voted which is the norm for each election. The total of the top ten cities is 24.7 million votes. That right there is one fifth of the voters only counting those ten cities, or 20%. He says 20% of the [I]total population[/I] in that video when referring to all 100 cities. 20% of the total population is 61 million which is at right about half of the popular vote. He is not being completely specific when he uses population or popular vote, switching from one to the other when they aren't interchangeable.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51342015]Are you so ignorant that you can't fathom why this is? Voting third party is a vote for the opposition in a FPTP world (unless you couldn't stomach the other party either). The rational voter votes for the party that most closely resembling themselves, but only if it has a shot at winning.[/QUOTE] Canada has 3 working parties in a first past the post system. Maybe if you didn't have your prominent 3rd parties led by Jill and Gary?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51341334]The only people who this protects at the moment are the white middle class. Last i checked they were a majority demographic. Clearly its not working as intended.[/QUOTE] white upper class actually, the white middle class is being eroded and those in the middle class are being gentrified or thrown into the dirt. the divide is growing.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;51341980]Total independents got like 1.8% of the polls. They sure had a chance[/QUOTE] Gary Johnson got like 3% of the popular vote for his party alone, and Stein got 1%. Pretty friggin' big since the last time a third party scored higher than that was in the early 90's with Ross Perot.
[url]https://mobile.twitter.com/EByard/status/796317753749729280[/url]
[QUOTE=Roger Waters;51342069]white upper class actually, the white middle class is being eroded and those in the middle class are being gentrified or thrown into the dirt. the divide is growing.[/QUOTE] Spot fucking on. The poor working class whites are being exploited by fucking Trump and his lies with only the upper class knowing the truth and going with it. (example: the college educated guys in Michigan) If the Democrats had actually tried to reach out to the fucking white working class and say 'hey, we know times are hard for you since your jobs have left the country but we can help you!' No, instead they ignored them and Trump preyed on their circumstances and now the white working class is fucking hated by everyone because the white nationalists just so happen to support Trump and now they're guilty by association. I've never been more motivated to go get involved in politics god damn it.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;51342055]Canada has 3 working parties in a first past the post system. Maybe if you didn't have your prominent 3rd parties led by Jill and Gary?[/QUOTE] Three is still a pretty low number, but either way, I think it's related partly to the presidency. Only one person can be the president, so a third party candidate will most definitely be a wasted vote in that case. The presidential election gets most of the coverage, and the candidates are basically the face of the party. If you don't have a prominent presidential candidate, you won't get any coverage. In local representation it's less of a problem, but still a problem. And sure, the third parties suck in the US. If they had a good shot at being relevant, I'm sure that would change.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51341439]Regarding Hillary. [media]https://twitter.com/HuffingtonPost/status/795865195285454848[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/HuffingtonPost/status/795663593689808896[/media] I think it's time to add Huffington Post to that list. [editline]9th November 2016[/editline] It's basically the leftist version of Breitbart.[/QUOTE] If you actually used the same available polling data they did you'd get the same percentages. It really was that the polls were this far off.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;51341305]150,000 is a drop of water in the ocean. Do you know how many votes were cast...[/QUOTE] Yes, elections that are sensibly run completely ignore the fact that the loser got 150,000 more votes than the winner
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51342114]Spot fucking on. The poor working class whites are being exploited by fucking Trump and his lies with only the upper class knowing the truth and going with it. (example: the college educated guys in Michigan) If the Democrats had actually tried to reach out to the fucking white working class and say 'hey, we know times are hard for you since your jobs have left the country but we can help you!' No, instead they ignored them and Trump preyed on their circumstances and now the white working class is fucking hated by everyone because the white nationalists just so happen to support Trump and now they're guilty by association. I've never been more motivated to go get involved in politics god damn it.[/QUOTE] Fuck you white people are evil
[QUOTE=Kyle902;51341307]We democrats need ti stand together and try our damnedest to get the electoral college abolished. Write your representative. Pass out flyers. Protest outside your town hall. Spread the word to every American[/QUOTE] Writing your representative won't do shit when we lost house and senate!
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51342119]Three is still a pretty low number, but either way, I think it's related partly to the presidency. Only one person can be the president, so a third party candidate will most definitely be a wasted vote in that case. The presidential election gets most of the coverage, and the candidates are basically the face of the party. If you don't have a prominent presidential candidate, you won't get any coverage. In local representation it's less of a problem, but still a problem. And sure, the third parties suck in the US. If they had a good shot at being relevant, I'm sure that would change.[/QUOTE] that's three major parties. We still have our super minorities like the bloc and the greens
[QUOTE=wystan;51341328]This is really just excess Californians. The founding fathers designed the electoral college to protect the minorities against the majority, giving low population states value to contend with giant population centers. This was a fair win.[/QUOTE] watch as someone tries to justify giving people in some states less political power to "protect" other states
[QUOTE=notlabbet;51342124]Writing your representative won't do shit when we lost house and senate![/QUOTE] My representative is Marco Rubio. How the fuck do you think I feel?
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;51342123]Fuck you white people are evil[/QUOTE] welp guess i'm evil now
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