Republicans to vote to repeal Obama's Health Care Reform in Jan 11

[Col. Buggernuts]

There's a part in the bill where it states why; their reasoning goes that as more people get health insurance, the premiums go down for everyone, costs related to uninsured people's health problems goes down and so on. It's 4:00 AM here, but i'll see if I can quickly find the section first.

[yawmwen]

I know the logic behind it, and the intent was 35 million people are without healthcare that should have it. However my hypothesis is that most of those 35 million would be exempt anyways and still be uninsured, likely doing absolutely nothing to fix anything.

[Col. Buggernuts]

[quote=SEC. 1501 ø42 U.S.C. 18091¿. REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.](a) FINDINGS.—Congress makes the following findings:
(1) IN GENERAL.—The individual responsibility requirement
provided for in this section (in this subsection referred to as
the ‘‘requirement’’) is commercial and economic in nature, and
substantially affects interstate commerce, as a result of the
effects described in paragraph (2).
(2) EFFECTS ON THE NATIONAL ECONOMY AND INTERSTATE
COMMERCE.—The effects described in this paragraph are the
following:
(A) The requirement regulates activity that is commercial and economic in nature: economic and financial
decisions about how and when health care is paid for,
and when health insurance is purchased.
(B) Health insurance and health care services are a
significant part of the national economy. National health
spending is projected to increase from $2,500,000,000,000,
or 17.6 percent of the economy, in 2009 to
$4,700,000,000,000 in 2019. Private health insurance
spending is projected to be $854,000,000,000 in 2009, and
pays for medical supplies, drugs, and equipment that are
shipped in interstate commerce. Since most health insurance is sold by national or regional health insurance companies, health insurance is sold in interstate commerce and
claims payments flow through interstate commerce.
(C) The requirement, together with the other provisions
of this Act, will add millions of new consumers to the
health insurance market, increasing the supply of, and
demand for, health care services. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the requirement will increase the
number and share of Americans who are insured.
(D) The requirement achieves near-universal coverage
by building upon and strengthening the private employer-
based health insurance system, which covers 176,000,000
Americans nationwide. In Massachusetts, a similar requirement has strengthened private employer-based coverage:
despite the economic downturn, the number of workers
offered employer-based coverage has actually increased.
(E) Half of all personal bankruptcies are caused in
part by medical expenses. By significantly increasing health
insurance coverage, the requirement, together with the
other provisions of this Act, will improve financial security
for families.
(F) Under the Employee Retirement Income Security
Act of 1974 (29 U.S.C. 1001 et seq.), the Public Health
Service Act (42 U.S.C. 201 et seq.), and this Act, the Federal
Government has a significant role in regulating health
insurance which is in interstate commerce.
(G) Under sections 2704 and 2705 of the Public Health
Service Act (as added by section 1201 of this Act), if there
were no requirement, many individuals would wait to purchase health insurance until they needed care. By significantly increasing health insurance coverage, the requirement, together with the other provisions of this Act, will
minimize this adverse selection and broaden the health
insurance risk pool to include healthy individuals, which
will lower health insurance premiums. The requirement
is essential to creating effective health insurance markets
in which improved health insurance products that are
guaranteed issue and do not exclude coverage of pre-
existing conditions can be sold.
(H) Administrative costs for private health insurance,
which were $90,000,000,000 in 2006, are 26 to 30 percent
of premiums in the current individual and small group
markets. By significantly increasing health insurance coverage and the size of purchasing pools, which will increase
economies of scale, the requirement, together with the other
provisions of this Act, will significantly reduce administrative costs and lower health insurance premiums. The
requirement is essential to creating effective health insurance markets that do not require underwriting and eliminate its associated administrative costs[/quote]

I think they mentioned somewhere that about 20 million were predicted to still not have healthcare, but it's time for me to sleep. As HumanAbyss mentioned, this bill has been stripped of many good things. In my opinion, despite the implemented flaws, it's worth keeping simply for regulating insurance better e.g. preventing people from having their coverage denied for pre-existing conditions. It certainly needs to be restored to it's more worthwhile condition, but it'll have to do as a stand-in.

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27226990]the bill was gutted of everything worthwhile in it. It shouldn't be like this.[/QUOTE]

=\ that's my reason why I hate the bill and don't like Obama for signing it. We need UHC or government funded public option. We can't just tell people to buy from private companies. Not only is it wrong morally(in my opinion), but it looks more and more like the government is just giving private companies a helping hand. The heath industry(pharmaceuticals, health insurance, blah blah blah) doesn't need anymore help than they are already getting.

[Ridge]

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;27225840]If you can't afford it, you will be exempted; as will those whose religious beliefs forbid it. It says so in the bill itself.[/QUOTE]

My religion is Jedi Knight. We do not believe in the ways of the mandated healthcare. Therefore we are exempt.

[editline]5th January 2011[/editline]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;27226430]god it must suck living in a country where one side of your politics is absolutely goddamn fucking retarded[/QUOTE]

Imagine what it is like living in a country where both sides are fucked up?

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=Ridge;27227384]My religion is Jedi Knight. We do not believe in the ways of the mandated healthcare. Therefore we are exempt.
[/QUOTE]

This bill says(or implies to me, since I don't speak legal) that it has to be an established religious church. Sort of like how you can't just buy a piece of land and say, "it's a church, I'm tax exempt", it has to be recognized.

[Zocom]

This is just going to go back and forth...

[POLOPOZOZO]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;27226430]god it must suck living in a country where one side of your politics is absolutely goddamn fucking retarded[/QUOTE]
What's worse is that both parties and a majority of the public hold similar opinions on issues that they shouldn't.

[editline]5th January 2011[/editline]

Like a lot of foreign policies.

[Ridge]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27227512]This bill says(or implies to me, since I don't speak legal) that it has to be an established religious church. Sort of like how you can't just buy a piece of land and say, "it's a church, I'm tax exempt", it has to be recognized.[/QUOTE]

Jedi Knight is recognized as a valid church in many European countries. Also, Festivus was recently declared a religion by the California Supreme Court...

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=Ridge;27228626]Jedi Knight is recognized as a valid church in many European countries. Also, Festivus was recently declared a religion by the California Supreme Court...[/QUOTE]

It only matters if it's federally recognized.

[Glaber]

Like the Cult, Scientology?

[Bulaba0]

Because Universal Health care worked so well everywhere else in the world that's it's been tried, and we definitely have the spare money to take it on right now...

[Habsburg]

[QUOTE=Bulaba0;27229672]Because Universal Health care worked so well everywhere else in the world that's it's been tried, and we definitely have the spare money to take it on right now...[/QUOTE]

Works pretty good in Canada, Israel, Taiwan, Austria, Andorra, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, and Japan.

[yawmwen]

those countrees r all comie so ur rong

[Habsburg]

and if you can afford to bailout wall street, most of the automotive industry, fight two pointless wars and occupy dozens of countries in the form of military bases then I think you can provide the citizens of your own country some common fucking decency.

[HumanAbyss]

[QUOTE=Bulaba0;27229672]Because Universal Health care worked so well everywhere else in the world that's it's been tried, and we definitely have the spare money to take it on right now...[/QUOTE]

Canada is number 3 in the world in terms of fighting cancer. Where is the US? #7. This is based on a recent study done by the BBC iirc.

I love it when people say that the US is better at medicine but there's not a single list that puts you there.

[Sillypiggy]

I think health should be a right, not something only the people that can afford it should get. let everyone have health care and if your butt hurt about the taxes thing then just stop going to war.

[Habsburg]

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27229852]I love it when people say that the US is better at medicine but there's not a single list that puts you there.[/QUOTE]

I would argue that they are pretty good at the whole medicine thing but taking care of their citizens who can't afford their system is where they fail.

[Moose]

i think churches and the production of bibles are a waste of money

maybe we should get rid of those

[yawmwen]

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;27229852]Canada is number 3 in the world in terms of fighting cancer. Where is the US? #7. This is based on a recent study done by the BBC iirc.

I love it when people say that the US is better at medicine but there's not a single list that puts you there.[/QUOTE]

I think the US does some things well. There is a reason a lot of Canadians come to the US for advanced procedures. If you have the money our system is amazing, but that's the problem, it's only amazing if you have money.

[Prismatex]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27230517]I think the US does some things well. There is a reason a lot of Canadians come to the US for [del]advanced[/del] [b]elective[/b] procedures. If you have the money our system is amazing, but that's the problem, it's only amazing if you have money.[/QUOTE]

fixed that for you

[HumanAbyss]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27230517]I think the US does some things well. There is a reason a lot of Canadians come to the US for advanced procedures. If you have the money our system is amazing, but that's the problem, it's only amazing if you have money.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and I like the idea of a two tier system myself, with adaquete care in the first teir for everyone, and slightly more competitively priced(aka higher) for quicker procedures and what not. But doctors should need a certain amount of years in the first tier to advance or something.

Though, I'm kind of just rambling.

But at least canada is actually ahead in research this time.

[Earthen]

They should have a healthcare system like Switzerland. Everybody has to have health insurance and if they can't pay then the state pays it for them.

[Prismatex]

[QUOTE=Earthen;27235380]They should have a healthcare system like Switzerland. Everybody has to have health insurance and if they can't pay then the state pays it for them.[/QUOTE]

but how do they decide who can't pay? that opens up a whole new can of worms.
personally, i'm a fan of medicare for all a la canada

[InsanePyro]

Democrats vote for healthcare while Republicans vote for war

Fuckers

[nono345]

I'm not a big fan of removing privatized healthcare but as far as I know this reform really did nothing too outrageous and was already pretty dumbed down and amended

[InsanePyro]

[QUOTE=nono345;27235695]I'm not a big fan of removing privatized healthcare but as far as I know this reform really did nothing too outrageous and was already pretty dumbed down and amended[/QUOTE]

Thats why it seems so useless is that it was bastardized so the Republicans would shut the fuck up

What got passed is in no way shape or form what the Democrats initially wanted

[Bllasae]

[QUOTE=Phycosymo;27196679]Once again the republicans prove that they are whiny dicks who simply [B]cannot[/B] let someone else have it their way.[/QUOTE]

For the good of the country actually; you should be happy.

[editline]6th January 2011[/editline]

[QUOTE=Prismatex;27235454]but how do they decide who can't pay? that opens up a whole new can of worms.
personally, i'm a fan of medicare for all a la canada[/QUOTE]
Canada's health care system sucks; I was in a car accident a year or two ago, arrived at emergency room IN an ambulance, and waited for like 10 hours to get in. You could die if you had something really wrong with you. Thank God I didn't. *knocks on wood*.

[Starpluck]

[QUOTE=Bllasae;27236893]
Canada's health care system sucks; I was in a car accident a year or two ago, arrived at emergency room IN an ambulance, and waited for like 10 hours to get in. You could die if you had something really wrong with you.[/QUOTE]
If you were going to die you would of been treated immediately. They aren't doctors for nothing.

[Bllasae]

[QUOTE=Starpluck;27236944]If you were going to die you would of been treated immediately. They aren't doctors for nothing.[/QUOTE]
No, actually, somebody (while I was sitting down in the ER) came in with a hand all bandaged from cutting it on a toilet or something, and they just told him it would be 10 hours. I've lived here for a while now, I think I know how things work more than you. Thanks, though.