Republicans to vote to repeal Obama's Health Care Reform in Jan 11
445 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Bllasae;27236893]For the good of the country actually; you should be happy.[/QUOTE]
Uh, no. It isn't good because both parties do this shit and as long as neither can come to a compromise the country is hardly going to go anywhere.
[QUOTE=Bllasae;27236963]No, actually, somebody (while I was sitting down in the ER) came in with a hand all bandaged from cutting it on a toilet or something, and they just told him it would be 10 hours. I've lived here for a while now, I think I know how things work more than you. Thanks, though.[/QUOTE]You missed the point entirely. If you were in immediate danger of dying, you would have been treated; as is the case in any nation with universal healthcare.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;27238755]You missed the point entirely. If you were in immediate danger of dying, you would have been treated; as is the case in any nation with universal healthcare.[/QUOTE]
No, you missed what I posted. Also, some people died in ER rooms like last year, so all you angsty liberals who think they know everything can just shut up.
You want to tell that to all the people or families how have stories here, Sgt Doom:
[url]http://www.biggovhealth.org/stories/[/url]
(reminder, each snippet contains a link to the full story)
[QUOTE=Bllasae;27240034]No, you missed what I posted. Also, some people died in ER rooms like last year, so all you angsty liberals who think they know everything can just shut up.[/QUOTE]I saw what you posted, and I fail to see how that person was in life-threatening danger.
Source for the "some people", please.
I live in a country with universal healthcare, and you know what? It works just fine, thanks. You conservative scaremongers are quite frankly, irritating.
[QUOTE=Glaber;27240211]You want to tell that to all the people or families how have stories here, Sgt Doom:
[url]http://www.biggovhealth.org/stories/[/url]
(reminder, each snippet contains a link to the full story)[/QUOTE]I don't want anecdotes from an obviously biased site, I want validated statistics; of people dying on the trolley, of waiting times and so on.
“I wouldn’t like to see Americans make the same mistake Canadians have made… Patients in Canada are treated like Third World citizens. Our health-care system is like Cuba or North Korea.”
I mean, seriously?
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;27240247]I saw what you posted, and I fail to see how that person was in life-threatening danger.
Source for the "some people", please.
I live in a country with universal healthcare, and you know what? It works just fine, thanks. You conservative scaremongers are quite frankly, irritating.
I don't want anecdotes from an obviously biased site, I want validated statistics; of people dying on the trolley, of waiting times and so on.[/QUOTE]
Good for you. I don't know what country you live in, but here in Canada universal healthcare sucks and is a failure of a system. And usually if you cut your hand open and need to constantly change bandages it means you're in life-threatening danger. Also: [URL]http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2008/09/24/hospital-death.html[/URL]
[url]http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/Emergency+room+wait+time+problem+continues+fester/3845544/story.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Bllasae;27240372]What link is that on? I couldn't find it on either.[/QUOTE]I was referring to the first site you linked, not the news sites.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;27240409]I was referring to the first site you linked, not the news sites.[/QUOTE]
Those are the only sites I linked.
[QUOTE=Bllasae;27240406]Also, I don't know why you're trying to fight me; you don't live in Canada, apparently, while I do, so good luck having more experience that I do living here.[/QUOTE]Your standpoint seems to be that universal healthcare is some evil system that kills people. I am absolutely certain it's not as bad as you think it is in Canada, and it is certainly not bad here in Europe. And as I said, anecdotes are worthless. For example, I got a nasty gash on my leg once, and I was able to see a doctor right away. That tells nothing of prevalence of such occurrences in the general population.
[editline]6th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bllasae;27240423]Those are the only sites I linked.[/QUOTE]Oh damn, meant Glaber, my bad.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;27240427]Your standpoint seems to be that universal healthcare is some evil system that kills people. I am absolutely certain it's not as bad as you think it is in Canada, and it is certainly not bad here in Europe. As I said, anecdotes are worthless.
[/QUOTE]
It's not some "Evil system", it's an ineffective and unproductive one. And I am absolutely certain it's as bad as I think it is, as I've, as posted earlier, lived in Canada for a while now. And anecdotes are not worthless, because they affect the way that I and other people see the health care system. Also, after I finally got inside, the doctor comes up and gives us the forms to fill out, and he literally stood at the end of the bed, waiting for us to finish the forms before going to another patient and checking up on them.
EDIT: The UK and Canada are completely different places, also, for your information.
yea umm, when Reps do take control...again, we are fucked...again
[QUOTE=Bllasae;27240486]It's not some "Evil system", it's an ineffective and unproductive one. And I am absolutely certain it's as bad as I think it is, as I've, as posted earlier, lived in Canada for a while now. [b]And anecdotes are not worthless, because they affect the way that I and other people see the health care system.[/b] Also, after I finally got inside, the doctor comes up and gives us the forms to fill out, and he literally stood at the end of the bed, waiting for us to finish the forms before going to another patient and checking up on them.[/QUOTE]Quite frankly, I don't give a damn. A proper conclusion cannot be drawn from such things, no proper government should.
An anecdote does not tell me how often this occurs. It does not tell me where it occurs the most i.e. the most affected provinces. It doesn't tell me who it affects the most e.g. are there racial differences in care and so on. It doesn't tell me what kind of care is most affected. etc etc
Statistics tell me all of those things.
To be honest, i'm interested in what you think should replace the current Canadian health care system, or how it should be improved.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;27240547]Quite frankly, I don't give a damn. A proper conclusion cannot be drawn from such things, no proper government should.
An anecdote does not tell me how often this occurs. It does not tell me where it occurs the most i.e. the most affected provinces. It doesn't tell me who it affects the most e.g. are there racial differences in care and so on. It doesn't tell me what kind of care is most affected. etc etc
Statistics tell me all of those things.[/QUOTE]
Okay, good for you. Apparently, you're done arguing because I've provided evidence and won. So good day, sir.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;27240427]Oh damn, meant Glaber, my bad.[/QUOTE]
i just use this site as a gate way to the stories it links to. If you don't trust it, click the links bundled with each story, or do you not trust the links too?
[QUOTE=Bllasae;27240621]Okay, good for you. Apparently, you're done arguing because I've provided evidence and won. So good day, sir.[/QUOTE]Again, what evidence? You've linked to 2 possibly isolated, freak occurrences. I refer you again to the gash in my leg anecdote. By your logic, the healthcare system in Finland is brilliant, bar none. Isolated stories are not useful in any way. I'm looking for statistics to give me a clearer idea of the situation in Canada, and you're simply not helping much.
[editline]6th January 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Glaber;27240678]i just use this site as a gate way to the stories it links to. If you don't trust it, click the links bundled with each story, or do you not trust the links too?[/QUOTE]I don't trust a site that is run by an organisation funded by the pharmaceutical industry in the US, and originated from an even shadier organisation.
It's a collection of horror stories, says so itself. The articles themselves are no doubt true, but it's the equivalent of collecting a bunch of stories of black people doing horrible things and therefore equating black people as somehow an inherently violent race.
You never hear the good side of things, simply because they're not worth reporting. That is the biggest problem with anecdotes.
Again, please link me to studies of the situation of the Canadian healthcare system, statistics and whatnot; something that gives an accurate, overall picture of the situation. I'm looking for them myself, but it's slow going thus far.
But isn't health care anecdotal?
[QUOTE=Glaber;27242363]But isn't health care anecdotal?[/QUOTE]What?
I know you don't have a habit of making sense, but what on earth are you trying to get at this time?
that health care is about the people and how they are treated.
[QUOTE=Glaber;27242930]that health care is about the people and how they are treated.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't make it anecdotal...
I don't see how that means it's anecdotal. As I said before, anecdotes don't give any idea of scale or prevalence.
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;27238755]You missed the point entirely. If you were in immediate danger of dying, you would have been treated; as is the case in any nation with universal healthcare.[/QUOTE]
No, Australia also sucks. My cousin got into a car accident and was on the verge of dying and the hospital wanted to let her die waiting for treatment. Her husband had to spend out the ass on private procedures to save her.
[QUOTE=Bllasae;27236893]Canada's health care system sucks; I was in a car accident a year or two ago, arrived at emergency room IN an ambulance, and waited for like 10 hours to get in. You could die if you had something really wrong with you. Thank God I didn't. *knocks on wood*.[/QUOTE]
Can you tell me how it would be better if you were in america?
[QUOTE=Lambeth;27246873]Can you tell me how it would be better if you were in america?[/QUOTE]
You don't wait nearly as long to get treatment.
This is why the 2 party system needs to go, Our nation hit the point where these party's do nothing but prevent us from moving forward. I'm not supporting the health change or aganist it but seriously everytime something is up to the plate both sides just fight each other and the original plan gets slaughtered so much you can't even call it what it originally was.
[QUOTE=Bllasae;27240621]Okay, good for you. Apparently, you're done arguing because I've provided evidence and won. So good day, sir.[/QUOTE]
sorry no. we've had this argument on facepunch maybe a million times.
anecdotal evidence is not evidence for fucking millionth time when it comes to healthcare.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;27247087]sorry no. we've had this argument on facepunch maybe a million times.
anecdotal evidence is not evidence for fucking millionth time when it comes to healthcare.[/QUOTE]
It is though. Why the fuck wouldn't it be? It's used all the time on both sides. For fuck's sake [i]Sicko[/i] was mostly anecdotal evidence and that movie is supposed to be an amazing eye opener.
People's personal experiences do matter, especially in healthcare.
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