Republicans to vote to repeal Obama's Health Care Reform in Jan 11 - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Glaber;27198316]When done for the right reasons, I agree. but bipartisanship just for the sake of bipartisanship isn't and can lead to stuff outside of congress like the Tea Parties to happen.[/QUOTE] I think I'm going to agree with Glaber here. There are just somethings you can't comprise on.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27246954]You don't wait nearly as long to get treatment.[/QUOTE] Not necessarily.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27246954]You don't wait nearly as long to get treatment.[/QUOTE] depends on the location you go to the local hospital in san francisco and it's going to be very crowded and difficult to get care what they do is they look and see who has the most life threatening conditions and treat them first

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27247130]It is though. Why the fuck wouldn't it be? It's used all the time on both sides. For fuck's sake [i]Sicko[/i] was mostly anecdotal evidence and that movie is supposed to be an amazing eye opener. People's personal experiences do matter, especially in healthcare.[/QUOTE] Why the fuck wouldn't it be? Because for every experience you have such as above, you can get one that is the exact opposite. For every experience saying someone waited 10 hours in a waiting room, you'll be able to get one saying that they received treatment instantly. Both are almost certainly unverifiable by both sides, and both offer absolutely no measurement of the success of a system. Just because YOU waited 10 hours to receive treatment does not mean the system as a whole fails.

I hope it gets repealed.

[QUOTE=Billiam;27247157]I think I'm going to agree with Glaber here. There are just somethings you can't comprise on.[/QUOTE] There are also thing you shouldn't need to compromise on. Like that 9/11 first responders bill.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27247130]It is though. Why the fuck wouldn't it be? [/QUOTE] Because several incidents aren't as accurate at giving a picture of an entire system as statistics. [QUOTE=yawmwen;27247130]It's used all the time on both sides.[/QUOTE] Doesn't make it right. [QUOTE=yawmwen;27247130]For fuck's sake [i]Sicko[/i] was mostly anecdotal evidence and that movie is supposed to be an amazing eye opener.[/QUOTE] Not even the hard left on Facepunch like Michael Moore. [QUOTE=yawmwen;27247130]People's personal experiences do matter, especially in healthcare.[/QUOTE] Sure, but the state of the people as a whole matters more. Would you rather have one person die from ER delays, or five people die from being uninsured?

Also, 90% of the time when someone uses anecdotal evidence it's because they can't find a report that backs up their claims.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;27247371]Also, 90% of the time when someone uses anecdotal evidence it's because they can't find a report that backs up their claims.[/QUOTE] [citation needed]

[QUOTE=Habsburg;27247231]Not necessarily.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://sigmundcarlandalfred.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/the-waiting-game-er-wait-times-in-canada-vs-us/[/URL] It's an average of an hour in the US and up to 20 hours in parts of Quebec. Even longer for any other procedure. [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#Wait_times[/URL] [URL]http://www.upi.com/Health_News/2010/07/26/Average-US-ER-wait-time-4-plus-hours/UPI-76891280122494/[/URL] 4 hour ER wait time for US according to this source. [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Billiam;27247297] Sure, but the state of the people as a whole matters more. Would you rather have one person die from ER delays, or five people die from being uninsured?[/QUOTE] My argument isn't that the US has a better system. My argument that is Canada's system is not better than the US in every way. There are problems with Canada's system that the US doesn't have, and we have to be aware of those problems so we can improve our own system and hopefully not have the same problems, while keeping the same benefits.

Apparently the UK's system is the 'most efficient' when it comes to the US, Australia, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands and New Zealand. Also second best overall to the Netherlands.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;27247498]Apparently the UK's system is the 'most efficient' when it comes to the US, Australia, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands and New Zealand.[/QUOTE] Does it beat France and Scandinavia's?

[QUOTE=Billiam;27247510]Does it beat France and Scandinavia's?[/QUOTE] They weren't in the report for whatever reason. oh and unsurprisingly the US was last.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27247418]My argument isn't that the US has a better system. My argument that is Canada's system is not better than the US in every way. There are problems with Canada's system that the US doesn't have, and we have to be aware of those problems so we can improve our own system and hopefully not have the same problems, while keeping the same benefits.[/QUOTE] I think a big reason behind the wait time is that Canada is too sparsely populated. Hospitals tend to be few and far in between, particularly in Quebec.

[QUOTE=Habsburg;27247671]I think a big reason behind the wait time is that Canada is too sparsely populated. Hospitals tend to be few and far in between, particularly in Quebec.[/QUOTE] That is a problem we have to compensate for then, especially in the midwest.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;27247934]That is a problem we have to compensate for then, especially in the midwest.[/QUOTE] Even then you're densely more populated than Canada. Most of Canada is all tundra

[QUOTE=Habsburg;27248047]Even then you're densely more populated than Canada. Most of Canada is all tundra[/QUOTE] According to this the US Midwest is about as dense as Quebec in many parts. [img]http://www.ponderthis.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/g-gpw-population-map.gif[/img] And this [img]http://earthtrends.wri.org/images/maps/4_m_Globalpopdens_md.gif[/img]

most of it is yellow [editline]6th January 2011[/editline] look here's quebec [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/Qu%C3%A9bec%2C_Canada.svg/706px-Qu%C3%A9bec%2C_Canada.svg.png[/img]

I know, some areas of the midwest and most of Alaska is like that.

What the fuck?! This makes me indescribably angry!

[QUOTE=Spetzaz;27255946]What the fuck?! This makes me indescribably angry![/QUOTE] You just described your anger, you're obviously not indescribably angry.

[QUOTE=Billiam;27247510]Does it beat France and Scandinavia's?[/QUOTE] I think the French still have the best system...I don't know about Scandinavia.

[QUOTE=Habsburg;27247275]There are also thing you shouldn't need to compromise on. Like that 9/11 first responders bill.[/QUOTE] Which was actually the responsibility of the states of New York and New Jersey, NOT the federal government.

[QUOTE=Ridge;27256932]Which was actually the responsibility of the states of New York and New Jersey, NOT the federal government.[/QUOTE] source

[QUOTE=Prismatex;27258244]source[/QUOTE] The rescuers were in the employment of the state of New York when they contracted their illness. Therefore, New York is responsible for their health. Why should the federal government pay for people who volunteered to help a state government do search and rescue in the wake of an attack led by people from half way around the world? The government bears exactly ZERO responsibility. Hell, New York could even claim no responsibility, because they were all volunteers.

[QUOTE=Ridge;27268346]The rescuers were in the employment of the state of New York when they contracted their illness. Therefore, New York is responsible for their health. Why should the federal government pay for people who volunteered to help a state government do search and rescue in the wake of an attack led by people from half way around the world? The government bears exactly ZERO responsibility. Hell, New York could even claim no responsibility, because they were all volunteers.[/QUOTE] Are you seriously arguing against giving those damn heroes the money they deserve? These guys aren't looking for free rides! A lot of them have terminal conditions or can no longer work because of what they did on 9/11 and afterward. Also, what does this have to do with the Health Care bill?!

[QUOTE=Bllasae;27240406]Also, I don't know why you're trying to fight me; you don't live in Canada, apparently, while I do, so good luck having more experience that I do living here.[/QUOTE] I live in Canada as well It's unfortunate that you had to wait 20 hours but that simply means that there were 20 hours worth of more severe cases that needed care Even in America if you show up at the ER with a broken ankle and they're dealing with 30 burn victims from an explosion (for example) you're going to be waiting a long time

[QUOTE=Zeke129;27268546]I live in Canada as well It's unfortunate that you had to wait 20 hours but that simply means that there were 20 hours worth of more severe cases that needed care [/QUOTE] And I'm fine with that, but I arrived in an ambulance, and when we did get in, the doctor guy just stayed at the end of the bed, waiting for us to finish the forms. It at LEAST needs an overhaul on productivity.

[QUOTE=Bllasae;27268593]And I'm fine with that, but I arrived in an ambulance, and when we did get in, the doctor guy just stayed at the end of the bed, waiting for us to finish the forms. It at LEAST needs an overhaul on productivity.[/QUOTE] Well neither of us knows the other side of the story. Perhaps that doctor was a specialist of some kind and wasn't able to deal with you specifically. Or maybe he was a nurse.

[QUOTE=Bllasae;27268593]And I'm fine with that, but I arrived in an ambulance, and when we did get in, the doctor guy just stayed at the end of the bed, waiting for us to finish the forms. It at LEAST needs an overhaul on productivity.[/QUOTE] This is so anecdotal it's insane. [editline]7th January 2011[/editline] "the man i thought was my doctor stood there for a little while so we could fill out forms, oh my god the entire health system is bad, the system needs an overhaul!"