Pope Francis to Offer Baptism to Aliens - Polidicks

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44801413]Why do people NEED a blind trust in something irrational? Please let me know why.[/QUOTE] to have something to hold on to. you can't just go up to an unemployed father of 3 in a third world country and tell him that everything he believes in is false and expect everything to get better.

All hail Pope Francis, the God-Emperor of Mankind!

It would actually be pretty rational to say that, based on the direction that most religious beliefs have headed and originated, that an alien's religious beliefs would most likely be syncretic in design, and thus they would be interested in Christianity (and other Earth-based religions) as a way of amalgamating beneficial practices and metaphors into their own, as foreign cultures have done upon being visited by the west (and vice versa to a much smaller degree). As to why an alien race would believe in a religion of any kind, the answer is somewhat straightforward, but often overlooked: religious practices and beliefs of all kinds tend to have many base behaviors in common, as they are used to help establish morality within people. This is not to say that there are no non-religious methods for achieving this, but it isn't incorrect to say that the majority of religious practices are designed with the intention of simply explaining altruism to others. Whether that level of altruism is still applicable to the religions in place today depends entirely on the level of corruption the writings have had over time and the way that they are manipulated to the public. Many seemingly arbitrary behaviors written in sacred scriptures tend to have a meaning that makes more sense in the context of the time it was created, such as abstinence from swine consumption being common in many religions due to the inability of then-current cooks (especially in poorer locations) to reliably cook and destroy the parasites within back then. In short, if you view religious behavior as a mechanism for explaining good ethics, which due to it's psychological complexity would potentially be a difficult way of conveying the usefulness and why it even exists in other ways, then yes, I think that it would be probable for extraterrestrials to also retain this practice.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;44801468]To Counter Argue all those who say Religion doesn't do anything really great, I point to these. [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/NotreDameDeParis.jpg[/t] [t]http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02376/mecca-mosque_2376801k.jpg[/t] [t]http://www.wondermondo.com/Images/Europe/Russia/Moscow/StBasils.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]Monuments that cost tons of money to create and serve no real practical purpose other than glory to God? You call that great? They are very beautiful works of architecture but other than that this isn't a very good counter-argument. [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44801499]to have something to hold on to. you can't just go up to an unemployed father of 3 in a third world country and tell him that everything he believes in is false and expect everything to get better.[/QUOTE]Religion in countries that are poor and uneducated might make sense because they need something to hold onto, but does it really help anything? What about all of those innocent people killed just because they are Christian or Muslim in Africa? People shouldn't pray to God and believe in false hopes and expect everything to get better either, because guess what it doesn't work. And if by coincidence they pray and things do get better than they are further entrenched in their beliefs believing that God was looking out for them and made it better, but if something terrible happens then they chalk it up as being God's will. [QUOTE=Eltro102;44801469]that's not what religion is at all?? religion in the modern world is to provide support for people, to provide a community for people. it's a solution for people to the problem of why the exist, and basic guidelines on how to behave and exist, it gives people the belief that they exist for a reason Why do people NEED to not trust? To not believe in something that they like, which helps them in many ways, just because it is irrational? Please let me know why[/QUOTE]Why do people need to get their morals from a book instead of instinctually just being good people?

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44801533]Because it is irrational [/QUOTE] and?? [editline]13th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Killer900;44801723]Why do people need to get their morals from a book instead of instinctually just being good people?[/QUOTE] What?? people aren't religious just to get a set of morals, it's to enforce the belief that the rest of the world has a set of morals, religion is the solution we have created to make a society in which belief in each others abilities is a concept highly promoted [B]religion isn't necessary, but arguing that it is something bad, something inherently terrible and incapable of good for anyone, ever is incredibly naive and [I]really fucking stupid[/I][/B]

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44801533]Is his childrens lives and future not enough to work for? There are other ways to have things to hold onto without going to some divine being that defies all logic.[/QUOTE] i think that when you're in a dire situation, no amount of hope is too much, even if it comes from something irrational [editline]13th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Killer900;44801723]People shouldn't pray to God and believe in false hopes and expect everything to get better either, because guess what it doesn't work.[/QUOTE] who are you to say it doesn't work? morale is a very, VERY important thing

[QUOTE=Killer900;44801723]Monuments that cost tons of money to create and serve no real practical purpose other than glory to God? You call that great? They are very beautiful works of architecture but other than that this isn't a very good counter-argument.[/QUOTE] Back when they were built, they weren't considered "wastes of money" just "tributes to the almighty". Sometimes it's the emotional value. Although I suppose you'd rather see Notre Dame torn down so France can save a few bucks?

Fucking Earth religious nuts, shoving their earthling religion down my 3 throats.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;44802690]It's a tourist attraction, they would never tear it down. That's a silly thought.[/QUOTE] Back then it was a testament to their undying faith. Sistene Chapel and such. I'm sure St. Basil's wasn't built because the Russians were thinking of making money off of those charming Germans.

So is it even okay for a Pope to mention aliens? I mean, does Catholicism even acknowledge the possibility of them existing?

[QUOTE=Killer900;44801723]Monuments that cost tons of money to create and serve no real practical purpose other than glory to God? You call that great? They are very beautiful works of architecture but other than that this isn't a very good counter-argument. [/QUOTE] You could say a similar thing about art

[QUOTE=maxumym;44802821]So is it even okay for a Pope to mention aliens? I mean, does Catholicism even acknowledge the possibility of them existing?[/QUOTE] The Bible is effectively entirely neutral on the stance of extraterrestrials, and the current Vatican stance is that there is a possibility. A quote from the current Director of the Vatican Observatory, Jose Gabriel Funes: "How can we exclude that life has developed elsewhere? Just as there is a multiplicity of creatures on earth, there can be other beings, even intelligent, created by God. This is not in contrast with our faith because we can't put limits on God's creative freedom"

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;44795331]Any race that has the technology to travel across the universe in any efficient fashion probably phased out religion a long time ago.[/QUOTE] I find it fascinating how 57 people rated agree with your post

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;44795599]Unless they turn out to be some sort of highly advanced Space Mormon equivalent. "Greetings, travelers from a distant star! We, the people of the planet Earth, welcome you with open-" "S͇̘o̘̝̩͇̮̕r̼͓̜ͅr̪̲̺̤̮̱y͖͠ t̼̜̮͔̼̠̼o̰͔̖̦͖̯͕ ̢̹i̞͙͖n̰̩̜te̴̝̜̳͖r̙̣̭͟r̨̟̦̪͔̼u̸̬̩͔͙p̥͈͙ṱ,͉̖̣͉̭͈͡ b͓̹͉u͟t̗ ̼͕̩͕̮̘d͕̪̪͇̫̣o͓̹̦̱̫ ͔y̼̤͇̱̟o̗̹̫̭͚̹u̯͎ ͉̦̼͙̖͟h͏͕a̷͔͇͍̲v͖͓̲̕ę͈̩͈̥͙ ̙͙͚̗ṭ̢̪̜̼͖͙͔i͔̮̻̞͓m̮͖̗̘̭̺͔̕e͈͓̱̘̲̻̤ ̦t͚̭̪o̤ ̧̠͎̩͇̩̜̗l͞e̕a̝̱͙̫͠r̲̠͍̘͈͞n̳̠̭̟ ̼͉͓̼̙͉̙mo̬̦͓r̖ę͕̜͔͉̝̱ͅ ͏̩͇̳͇̻ͅa̛̮̖̮b̻̮̩̝̩o̧͚̯͙u͖t̪̱̺̺̹͓̹ ̢̮̲̮̤o̟͎̳͇̺ͅu̪̥̠r̳̥͞ ̰Ĺ̰̩͉̬̩̙͓o͙̮̼r̤̖͝d̫̪̠̲̪ ̗̻̘͡a̴̖ņd͉̞̮̝̯̦̭ ̱͘Ś̲̞̣̥̩̬̠a̪͎v͕͙̝̝i͏̞͓͖ͅo̩̟̫̞͓ṵ̭̼̀r̝̻̹̲͢,͏̬ ͎͚͕͉̗D͏̠̻̳b͠y̼͇o̟̠͡r̩̝͙̠͎t̳̮̫ͅk̷̥̱̺?͕̻͈͈̖"[/QUOTE] Dear god. Considering the likely tendencies of starfaring species..space Mormons might be the only ones [I]not[/I] to try to kill/harvest us.

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;44795331]Any race that has the technology to travel across the universe in any efficient fashion probably phased out religion a long time ago.[/QUOTE] you don't need to be an atheist to do rocket science.

[QUOTE=The Duke;44803221]The Bible is effectively entirely neutral on the stance of extraterrestrials, and the current Vatican stance is that there is a possibility. A quote from the current Director of the Vatican Observatory, Jose Gabriel Funes: "How can we exclude that life has developed elsewhere? Just as there is a multiplicity of creatures on earth, there can be other beings, even intelligent, created by God. This is not in contrast with our faith because we can't put limits on God's creative freedom"[/QUOTE] Of course if that's how you choose to interpret it. When the Bible was written people didn't even realize that other planets were made of the same type of stuff as our own, so it's unsurprising that it wouldn't make a claim about about extraterrestrials. That's kind of the whole reason Christianity has lasted so long. Nobody really cares what the Bible actually says, because any time it makes a claim that we now know to be obviously false, believers simply brush it off as a fable not meant to be taken literally. The same will happen if alien life is discovered, though I don't know how people will manage to reconcile that with the idea that humanity is special. I'm sure they will though. [editline]14th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;44804453]you don't need to be an atheist to do rocket science.[/QUOTE] No, but interestingly all of the science that gets you to that point contradicts most major relogions' creation myths.

[QUOTE=Falubii;44804462]because any time it makes a claim that we now know to be obviously false, believers simply brush it off as a fable not meant to be taken literally[/QUOTE] and why isn't that a valid argument? why do you see it as an excuse?

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44804475]and why isn't that a valid argument? why do you see it as an excuse?[/QUOTE] Because what the allegedly infallible book is actually saying has to change every time science or current cultural norms contradicts it. To me that doesn't scream absolute truth.

[QUOTE=Falubii;44804462] No, but interestingly all of the science that gets you to that point contradicts [B]most[/B] major religions' creation myths.[/QUOTE] that's the key point. intelligent life from another planet may very well have such an incredibly, shockingly enough, alien way of thinking that their major religion is not in direct conflict with the laws of science. we have no idea, it is probably impossible for us ton conceive how intelligent life on another planet even [I]looks[/I] like, let alone how they think, which arguably would be even more complex and impossible for us to imagine

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;44804492]that's the key point. intelligent life from another planet may very well have such an incredibly, shockingly enough, alien way of thinking that their major religion is not in direct conflict with the laws of science. we have no idea, it is probably impossible for us ton conceive how intelligent life on another planet even [I]looks[/I] like, let alone how they think, which arguably would be even more complex and impossible for us to imagine[/QUOTE] Okay, then what they call religion will not even remotely resemble the systems of religion on Earth.

[QUOTE=Falubii;44804505]Okay, then what they call religion will not even remotely resemble the systems of religion on Earth.[/QUOTE] even if it were similar, it still wouldn't necessarily discount a spacefaring race being highly religious. they could have no creation myth, instead taking only what is known about the world in that aspect. they could worship sex, with rituals surrounding that. they could worship discovery, which would more than likely put them ahead of us technology-wise. hell, they could worship the big bang

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;44804546]even if it were similar, it still wouldn't necessarily discount a spacefaring race being highly religious. they could have no creation myth, instead taking only what is known about the world in that aspect. they could worship sex, with rituals surrounding that. they could worship discovery, which would more than likely put them ahead of us technology-wise. hell, they could worship the big bang[/QUOTE] But I certainly don't see a reason to think that they would, at least not in the same way I imagine when I hear the word worship.

[QUOTE=Falubii;44804487]Because what the allegedly infallible book is actually saying has to change every time science or current cultural norms contradicts it. To me that doesn't scream absolute truth.[/QUOTE] a story can be interpreted a different way without changing its meaning

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44804675]a story can be interpreted a different way without changing its meaning[/QUOTE] That's why there are different kinds of Christianity. Latter Day Saints, Roman Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, etc. All stem from one simple book, and one Jesus.

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;44799921]You've clearly never heard of the Imperium of Man, the Covenant, the Foundation, or pretty much read any space faring sci-fi novels ever, have you?[/QUOTE] Imperium of Man was strictly atheistic when it spread across space. It only became a theocracy after Empy started the big sleep and everyone forgot how refrigerators worked. [editline]14th May 2014[/editline] Anyway, as far as I can imagine any super advanced spacefaring civilization is going to be some kinda chromed up cyborg/digital sentience type thing. I mean we're pretty much beginning the process of sticking computers in our heads right now, and we're a bunch of planet locked monkeys. I feel like once everyone has gene modded 3D printed carbon nanotube waifu sexbots and handheld superintelligent AIs that plug into their neural interface implants the whole Jesus thing is going to start looking a bit quaint. I mean, shit. Give us another century and we'll probably figure out how to make people functionally immortal. In the coming age of digital mind torture prisons and custom fabricated nano plagues, how important is some guy getting nailed to some sticks really going to seem? And with whatever Helios/Skynet type artificial overlord we probably end up producing, what're you even going to need an old fashioned god for?

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44804675]a story can be interpreted a different way without changing its meaning[/QUOTE] How can something be an absolute truth when you can interpret it in different ways? When something can be taken in the extremes of either good or bad,seems to me like whoever wrote that absolute truth is really bad at making people understand those truths

[QUOTE=Matrix374;44804944]How can something be an absolute truth when you can interpret it in different ways? When something can be taken in the extremes of either good or bad,seems to me like whoever wrote that absolute truth is really bad at making people understand those truths[/QUOTE] let's say the talking snake thing really happened. that story tells people not to sin. but let's say it was a fable, not meant to be taken literally. then, that story tells people not to sin. how exactly does that change anything

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44804979]let's say the talking snake thing really happened. that story tells people not to sin. but let's say it was a fable, not meant to be taken literally. then, that story tells people not to sin. how exactly does that change anything[/QUOTE] Yeah a simple and basic story but what about the other stuff,? The Bible isn't just about Adam and Eve in Eden and there are also tons of other religious books out there claiming absolute truths. They can't all be true as they tell completely different stories and there's a divide even inside these religions on what is literal and what is fable An example from the Quran is a couple of verses in Surah An-Nisa,a command from God. To paraphrase,it says to kill apostates who are "against" you but not to kill ones that are not. These can be taken in a number of ways, One of them being them using "apostates" in a similar vein to "traitors" and in an act of self-defense you have the right to kill them as they threaten your society physically. But you could also take this as,Kill apostates who are against Islam and the Islamic lifestyle,people who slander the Islamic belief and reject it. Both forms are popular interpretations in the Islamic Community,more liberal Muslims would of course say that the verse meant the former but the fact that there exist a divide amongst the community shows that this is absolutely not an absolute truth. I don't like using videos to argue but if you're interested [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFrkjEgUDZA&index=3&list=PL126AFB53A6F002CC]AronRa[/url] does a much better job than I on explaining how[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnj7PlqmJ5o] Absolute Truth[/url] is absolute bollocks

absolute truth wasn't even my initial point, all i was saying is that what falubii was saying made no sense, because a story and its meaning don't necessarily take a 180 turn once they're interpreted as fables instead

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;44804712]That's why there are different kinds of Christianity. Latter Day Saints, Roman Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, etc. All stem from one simple book, and one Jesus.[/QUOTE] Except all of those aren't based on the same thing: - Latter Day Saints have the Book of Mormon. - Roman Catholics hold tradition as more foundational than the Bible. (not agreeing with the basic doctrine of sola scriptura, only scripture, held by the vast majority of protestants.) - Protestants hold to only the Bible. - Orthodox, similarly to Catholics, have a ton of material based in church tradition outside of the Bible. - Jehovah's Witnesses have their own special Bible translation (The Watch Tower) that changes a lot of vital passages. You'll find that groups who's doctrine are found in the same place also have very similar doctrine.