Climate change warnings for coral reef may have come to pass, scientists say - Polidicks

[QUOTE=OvB;49985198]I think humans will survive. But given the definition of the word is to live in spite of hardship, I find it asinine that 21st century humanity still considers it an option. Our ancestors survived, we figured out how to rub sticks together to make fire so we didn't freeze to death like all your friends, that's survival. I can read more information from my phone while taking a shit than the average human got in a lifetime just a few hundred years ago. A future in this day and age where humanity just [I]"survives"[/I] shouldn't even be up for consideration. We should be [I]thriving.[/I][/QUOTE] Of course. But that said as a last resort I personally wouldn't mind "just" surviving. Maybe it's just the optimist in me, but being alive can mean many things. Not being able to use the internet is an alright tradeoff in my opinion if I can still have a shot at just being alive.

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;49985890]Of course. But that said as a last resort I personally wouldn't mind "just" surviving. Maybe it's just the optimist in me, but being alive can mean many things. Not being able to use the internet is an alright tradeoff in my opinion if I can still have a shot at just being alive.[/QUOTE] yeah but it won't just be that the infrastructure you rely on will crumble, power networks will fail, agriculture will be limited to what's around you, meaning food supply is more locally controlled than it has been in decades, and we'll see many issues crop up because of that as well as the simple truth many areas won't be viable for growth. Rising sea levels will change our geography and drought will change it even more. Massive cities will be deserted. It'll be a different world entirely. One i'm not even remotely enthused to live in.

[QUOTE=AtomicWaffle;49984958]This is saddening, and very distressing. I really hope we get our shit together.[/QUOTE] Trust me, we won't.

So when is the revolution and what is the best recipe for a carbon neutral molotv I mean lets be honest here, immediate change in policy isn't going to happen without a legitimate threat to those in charge, and the policies need to be changed immediately. As appealing it would be to see the current governments of the world burn for their general ineptitude at helping humanity, I'd prefer something a bit more peaceful than large-scale revolts. But if we wait too long then there will be blood no matter what. Or maybe we can just start growing our food in labs and have rooftop gardens on every building and not have to worry about farmland drying up or fish dying out

There's so many issues to tackle relating to climate change that I don't know if we will be able to get it done in time on a large enough scale. Sad times. [editline]22nd March 2016[/editline] We should of started the process decades ago.

Something to consider that people [I]are[/I] trying to fix this. No, it's not the ones that matter (ie oil industries and other related stuff) but take a look: [URL]http://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/423696/a-coral-reef-revival/[/URL] It's going to be a nasty, nasty next couple of decades if not centuries, but it won't be Armageddon, I don't think. I [I]hope.[/I]

[QUOTE=LiquidNazgul;49986201]Something to consider that people [I]are[/I] trying to fix this. No, it's not the ones that matter (ie oil industries and other related stuff) but take a look: [URL]http://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/423696/a-coral-reef-revival/[/URL] It's going to be a nasty, nasty next couple of decades if not centuries, but it won't be Armageddon, I don't think. I [I]hope.[/I][/QUOTE] If you don't fix the issue causing the problem I think this is probably just slowing down the degradation slightly rather than reversing it.

[QUOTE=piddlezmcfuz;49986065]So when is the revolution and what is the best recipe for a carbon neutral molotv[/QUOTE] For a serious answer, I'd wait until robots and computers take over the majority of service and transportation and other similar industries. If we do not have a livable basic income by then, there should be no shortage of angry unemployed homeless with little left to lose.

[QUOTE=Morgen;49986242]If you don't fix the issue causing the problem I think this is probably just slowing down the degradation slightly rather than reversing it.[/QUOTE] Agreed, but it's still better than not trying at all.

People have been predicting the fall of humanity before, during and after cataclysmic catastrophes for our whole history.

[QUOTE=Talishmar;49986468]People have been predicting the fall of humanity before, during and after cataclysmic catastrophes for our whole history.[/QUOTE] Oh yes that invalidates actual evidence of anthropogenic climate change, something which we don't have written histories I'm so sick of this as an answer. It's pointless. It's useless. It's ignorant. It refuses to acknowledge that modern man has both more power, more knowledge, more resources, more of everything than we ever had before. We truly have the capability to end life on earth with our nuclear arsenals, and we truly have the capability to irreparably damage the oceans ecosystem(which we rely on) the agricultural eco systems(Which we rely on) as well as the natural biodiversity(that we rely on). These kinds of "well we heard it before so it's definitely false now" platitudes are not helping.

[QUOTE=Talishmar;49986468]People have been predicting the fall of humanity before, during and after cataclysmic catastrophes for our whole history.[/QUOTE] :speechless: Except this time it's a legitimate threat with scientific backing. Not some religious nut.

Just think once the ocean is gone, We are. They control everything. Once they go acid its just gonna be death.

[QUOTE=OvB;49985096]Well it makes sense. If you're already in the oil industries pockets, and the industry is being attacked by the Greens (solar, wind, EV's, etc), which are supported generally by liberals, you're going to make it an us vs them type thing and conclude that climate change must be a ploy to beat you. You also lack any hint of scientific literacy so it makes sense in your calm little narrow minded world that it's just a political game. And, since your current party of political affiliation doesn't take kindly to "big government" and regulations, you see attempts to regulate industrial impacts on the climate as another way to hold you and your team down. You buy into the bullshit being fed to you by industry giants that you feel like you're in the right, and you're just being attacked by the [I]left.[/I][/QUOTE] They can buy as many politicians as the want, but at the end of the day their most powerful tool is jobs. People have done some [I]insane[/I] shit for the sake of job security, and in some places that kind of behavior is everywhere. Unsafe and dirty industries can do just about anything to these people, and they'll just sit there and take it. They will support anyone who protects their job, fight anyone who even vaguely threatens it, and treat everything bad that happens as a necessary sacrifice. Without these people, defending such industries would become a nightmare for politicians, and no amount of money would make it easier for them to deal with it.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49985926]yeah but it won't just be that the infrastructure you rely on will crumble, power networks will fail, agriculture will be limited to what's around you, meaning food supply is more locally controlled than it has been in decades, and we'll see many issues crop up because of that as well as the simple truth many areas won't be viable for growth. Rising sea levels will change our geography and drought will change it even more. Massive cities will be deserted. It'll be a different world entirely. One i'm not even remotely enthused to live in.[/QUOTE] If you're going through hell, keep going.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49986746]If you're going through hell, keep going.[/QUOTE] If humanity destroys the environments that we require to live then watching your family members die may not be the "motivation" you need to keep going through hell. Humanity will be ill-equipped to deal with it. [editline]22nd March 2016[/editline] Not to mention the ensuing power vacuum will create less than favourable conditions for those of who do survive.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49986761] Not to mention the ensuing power vacuum will create less than favourable conditions for those of who do survive.[/QUOTE] At least we will FINALLY have a chance to replace FPTP voting....

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49986761]If humanity destroys the environments that we require to live then watching your family members die may not be the "motivation" you need to keep going through hell. Humanity will be ill-equipped to deal with it. [editline]22nd March 2016[/editline] Not to mention the ensuing power vacuum will create less than favourable conditions for those of who do survive.[/QUOTE] I've already seen those sorts of problems with my family members. I don't think there's much that could deter me from doing my duty in the field of science. If civilization starts to fall apart during my lifetime, well, beyond survival I might as well try to continue preserving and continuing the discoveries of science as much as possible so that whoever is around in the future may benefit. My grandfather went to a concentration camp in the German Reich where he suffered greatly for the crime of being Polish, although he made constant attempts to escape and ultimately join up with the Polish army. His wife went to a Soviet camp before returning to a ruined Poland where rape and banditry and looting was commonplace and entire ethnic groups had been destroyed along with whole towns and cities. They didn't give up at that point, and I don't see why I ought to consider giving up in the face of this major crisis.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49986801]I've already seen those sorts of problems with my family members. I don't think there's much that could deter me from doing my duty in the field of science. If civilization starts to fall apart during my lifetime, well, beyond survival I might as well try to continue preserving and continuing the discoveries of science as much as possible so that whoever is around in the future may benefit. My grandfather went to a concentration camp in the German Reich where he suffered greatly for the crime of being Polish, although he made constant attempts to escape and ultimately join up with the Polish army. His wife went to a Soviet camp before returning to a ruined Poland where rape and banditry and looting was commonplace and entire ethnic groups had been destroyed along with whole towns and cities. They didn't give up at that point, and I don't see why I ought to consider giving up in the face of this major crisis.[/QUOTE] I don't know, in my mind, if humanity let itself rise so high, and let itself fall to our eventual extinction, I don't see why I should give a shit, or try. We've seen the warnings for decades. We ignore them. Why do we deserve the planet?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49986920]I don't know, in my mind, if humanity let itself rise so high, and let itself fall to our eventual extinction, I don't see why I should give a shit, or try. We've seen the warnings for decades. We ignore them. Why do we deserve the planet?[/QUOTE] Well, much like in the last war, you see the best and worst of humanity. Right now I'm assuming you see the worst of humanity over these coming years. Short sighted politicians allow the environment decay as great forests die in droughts, wildfires, or from beetle invasion, shoals of dead fish wash up on the shores while a emaciated fisherman stares out longingly. Dead crops wilted in the cracked earth while warlords begin the work of ransacking civilization atop jeeps while the electricity flickers out because the hydroelectrical dams don't have enough water to run them. All of the lights switch off and from the aether above the globe plunges back into a miserable darkness. I also see the best of humanity in these times, for there will be still people donating blood to hospitals. There will be still aid workers and those who try to distribute food in the famine stricken regions. Some politicians who genuinely care for the people will be making attempts to salvage whatever is possible, while you have priests who come to be a source of support in a community as the secular governments slowly dissolve. When the last civilization collapsed in the wake of the follies of mankind, people didn't give up then, but many of them made the best of the situation and kept on going. Why today do people provide support to the suicidal and mental health facilities for those sick and unwell? The world is doomed, we should just let ourselves be miserable and await the coming demise we deserve. But a lot of people are refusing that, and I'm an disagreeable person so I'm bloody well refusing it as well. The fact we can be aware of our problems and make some headway towards fixing them is due to the gift of reason, which separates us from the animals. If the pigs or parrots were in charge, I would think them just as liable to cock up and ruin it for everyone else by dumping acid into the oceans or setting off nuclear bombs. We're here now, and I don't think its very fair to focus so much on all our failings and yet to ignore the achievements made too. Evil acts and our failings should not be seen solely as such, but as lessons for the future to learn from. Those which lead to true happiness, such as the application of love will still persist and people will still find it in themselves the capacity to be good, even if the world hath been bleached clean and it rains strontium-90.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49987087]Well, much like in the last war, you see the best and worst of humanity. Right now I'm assuming you see the worst of humanity over these coming years. Short sighted politicians allow the environment decay as great forests die in droughts, wildfires, or from beetle invasion, shoals of dead fish wash up on the shores while a emaciated fisherman stares out longingly. Dead crops wilted in the cracked earth while warlords begin the work of ransacking civilization atop jeeps while the electricity flickers out because the hydroelectrical dams don't have enough water to run them. All of the lights switch off and from the aether above the globe plunges back into a miserable darkness. I also see the best of humanity in these times, for there will be still people donating blood to hospitals. There will be still aid workers and those who try to distribute food in the famine stricken regions. Some politicians who genuinely care for the people will be making attempts to salvage whatever is possible, while you have priests who come to be a source of support in a community as the secular governments slowly dissolve. When the last civilization collapsed in the wake of the follies of mankind, people didn't give up then, but many of them made the best of the situation and kept on going. Why today do people provide support to the suicidal and mental health facilities for those sick and unwell? The world is doomed, we should just let ourselves be miserable and await the coming demise we deserve. But a lot of people are refusing that, and I'm an disagreeable person so I'm bloody well refusing it as well. The fact we can be aware of our problems and make some headway towards fixing them is due to the gift of reason, which separates us from the animals. If the pigs or parrots were in charge, I would think them just as liable to cock up and ruin it for everyone else by dumping acid into the oceans or setting off nuclear bombs. We're here now, and I don't think its very fair to focus so much on all our failings and yet to ignore the achievements made too. Evil acts and our failings should not be seen solely as such, but as lessons for the future to learn from. Those which lead to true happiness, such as the application of love will still persist and people will still find it in themselves the capacity to be good, even if the world hath been bleached clean and it rains strontium-90.[/QUOTE] You see the fall of civilization as a chance for the "good people" to rise up and do what's right I see it literally the exact opposite. Without laws, police, and the force to back up those societal threats and standards, the worst of society will arise. You mention mental health, but people like myself who are have spent much, if not all of their lives in depression won't fare well in the new world. I'll either roll up into a ball, or I'll let the most hateful, and vile part of myself win so that I can survive at any costs. I do not see how the "best of society" and the best of humanity will be had out of those times when there will be just as much chance for manipulation. You have a great deal more faith in the people of this planet than I do.

[QUOTE=piddlezmcfuz;49986065]So when is the revolution and what is the best recipe for a carbon neutral molotv I mean lets be honest here, immediate change in policy isn't going to happen without a legitimate threat to those in charge, and the policies need to be changed immediately. As appealing it would be to see the current governments of the world burn for their general ineptitude at helping humanity, I'd prefer something a bit more peaceful than large-scale revolts. But if we wait too long then there will be blood no matter what. Or maybe we can just start growing our food in labs and have rooftop gardens on every building and not have to worry about farmland drying up or fish dying out[/QUOTE] Roof top gardens won't produce enough. Lab grown food is potentially an option, but we're only recent making real progress.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49987141]You see the fall of civilization as a chance for the "good people" to rise up and do what's right I see it literally the exact opposite. Without laws, police, and the force to back up those societal threats and standards, the worst of society will arise. You mention mental health, but people like myself who are have spent much, if not all of their lives in depression won't fare well in the new world. I'll either roll up into a ball, or I'll let the most hateful, and vile part of myself win so that I can survive at any costs. I do not see how the "best of society" and the best of humanity will be had out of those times when there will be just as much chance for manipulation. You have a great deal more faith in the people of this planet than I do.[/QUOTE] It's not really a chance for good people to rise up and do what's right, it's just the fact that they'll keep on doing it regardless of these external circumstances. The point is that you can find good in even the unlikeliest places and the darkest of times. If we didn't have that, this would be a grimdark 40k warhammer universe. I mean yes we are products of evolution whose one purpose is to survive long enough to produce offspring, but ironically that's not really real life in the end. Even depressing and terrible worlds have little sparks of light and humanity here and there. It's rather telling that when people use the term "humanity" it's generally seen as good rather than evil. Everybody is a human, but to have humanity means to rise and overcome a lot of what attacks the soul and mind and to refuse to give in. Modern society exists because of the efforts of many millions who refused to go quietly when the last civilization collapsed. The story didn't end there, and it's not going to end for a while yet. I've suffered from horribly crippling depression for half a decade, if not more. I've attempted to commit suicide, committed many despicable acts, and spent a great deal of time lying down in a filthy bed wondering about the many pressingly bad social anxieties and problems encroaching upon me while I tried to sleep. I've spent years feeling like a broken or incomplete person made to feel somehow subhuman by all kinds of persons, and to have been raised badly by parents incompetently or in absentia, even to have ones own mother declare that she did not love you. Today there are still many of those lingering problems, but for me to make friends with a girl half a continent away and to go hug her and feel how she is real and genuinely loves you for incomprehensible reasons, and that she seeks to improve the world, well, I think that's evidence enough that it's not worth giving up yet. If I had done so a few years ago, then I would have died without that experience.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;49984842]Can someone explain why we care about coral? I'm not trying to be daft I just genuinely don't know what coral does for the ecosystem.[/QUOTE] It generally mitigates storms, and has an enormous amount of biodiversity While this is a huge tragedy for the environment there are bleach resistant corals out there that hopefully can be transplanted, but it's not a good fix because that just destroys biodiversity

I don't know how climate change deniers can be so blind.

[QUOTE=angelangel;49987491]I don't know how climate change deniers can be so blind.[/QUOTE] Can't see the sky when you're bending down to pick up money.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49987302]It's not really a chance for good people to rise up and do what's right, it's just the fact that they'll keep on doing it regardless of these external circumstances. The point is that you can find good in even the unlikeliest places and the darkest of times. If we didn't have that, this would be a grimdark 40k warhammer universe. I mean yes we are products of evolution whose one purpose is to survive long enough to produce offspring, but ironically that's not really real life in the end. Even depressing and terrible worlds have little sparks of light and humanity here and there. It's rather telling that when people use the term "humanity" it's generally seen as good rather than evil. Everybody is a human, but to have humanity means to rise and overcome a lot of what attacks the soul and mind and to refuse to give in. Modern society exists because of the efforts of many millions who refused to go quietly when the last civilization collapsed. The story didn't end there, and it's not going to end for a while yet. I've suffered from horribly crippling depression for half a decade, if not more. I've attempted to commit suicide, committed many despicable acts, and spent a great deal of time lying down in a filthy bed wondering about the many pressingly bad social anxieties and problems encroaching upon me while I tried to sleep. I've spent years feeling like a broken or incomplete person made to feel somehow subhuman by all kinds of persons, and to have been raised badly by parents incompetently or in absentia, even to have ones own mother declare that she did not love you. Today there are still many of those lingering problems, but for me to make friends with a girl half a continent away and to go hug her and feel how she is real and genuinely loves you for incomprehensible reasons, and that she seeks to improve the world, well, I think that's evidence enough that it's not worth giving up yet. If I had done so a few years ago, then I would have died without that experience.[/QUOTE] And I see your side of it. I just doubt that a truly horrific future is going to bring out the best in people. I honestly just see your optimism about some of these things to be silly. I understand the emotional weight of having love happen and how bright that makes the world. I'm in a long term serious relationship approaching marriage, and have had many serious relationships before, so I say this with love dude, love isn't all it's cracked up to be. There's lot of opinions about it, but it's work. And the end of the modern era will require a lot more than just love to survive the really fucked up world before us.

I have no problem with humanity going back to simply surviving again if it means we live. We were simply surviving for a long time before we got to where we are now. So long as we live, we can adapt. The longer we 'survive' the higher the probability of us thriving once more becomes. We may be entering one of the darkest eras we've ever faced, or we may not. But I have no doubt that Mankind will endure. We fall, but we fall to rise again. Even if it takes us a thousand years, we'll find our way to brighter days. [editline]Have Hope[/editline] For that matter, [i]mother nature[/i] will endure. Short of the sun engulfing it into nothingness, the world can and WILL bounce back given enough time. [editline]I agree[/editline] [QUOTE=Morgen;49988189]Personally I'd rather not fall in the first place. I would like to maintain our way of life as it is at the very least. It's entirely possible if we take action right now, we don't need to go back to the dark ages as a species.[/QUOTE] Neither would I. But if our options as some people in this thread have been saying are 'die' and 'survive' I view survival as a very good thing.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49987929]And I see your side of it. I just doubt that a truly horrific future is going to bring out the best in people. I honestly just see your optimism about some of these things to be silly. I understand the emotional weight of having love happen and how bright that makes the world. I'm in a long term serious relationship approaching marriage, and have had many serious relationships before, so I say this with love dude, love isn't all it's cracked up to be. There's lot of opinions about it, but it's work. And the end of the modern era will require a lot more than just love to survive the really fucked up world before us.[/QUOTE] You'd be surprised about a horrible world bringing out the best in people - one only has to read the accounts of holocaust survivors to see what humans are capable are in both evil and good. Even in the Russian gulags at the height of stalinism was it possible to bring out the best of people and to sustain love in the face of brutal oppression (there's an interesting book on a series of love letters between two Russian gulag prisoners going into detail about it). During the heights of the biggest wars, deadly diseases wiping out millions, the collapse of some civilization, the descent into brutal civil war or the like, it has been possible to find people quietly plodding along continuing to do good work. Certainly some of the best examples of the good that humans are capable of I would argue to have been manifest during the Second World War - it tells a lot about human nature. Love is a pretty ok thing in my view, and it goes a long way towards helping to alleviate some of my own burden, and hers as well. It can certainly survive a small quibble like the collapse of civilization. I've got to keep on doing my duty for the lady of science too.

To be honest, Humanity deserves what it has coming. This could be a mercy kill if it puts us all out of our routine misery of making the world even worse than we found it. I just hope I'll die quickly. I may have never been loved in life, but then again, neither are the people responsible for this mess.