Rainbows over the Natural State! Federal judge strikes down Arkansas' gay marriage ban - Polidicks

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44794203]That's a fine explanation for "how" someone could end up thinking a certain way but that's not a justification for "why" they should continue to think that way.[/QUOTE] It sort of just stuck with me. Considering the environment I grew up in(And still live in), it's what made sense to me.

[QUOTE=Water-Marine;44793588]You hear what you're saying? You're saying nobody's allowed to have opinions. He disagrees with gay marriage. But he [b]won't stop them from getting married.[/b] That's the key point there. Everyone's allowed to have an opinion, it's only bad when it gets in the way directly of others'. It's in the same vein as people saying "I don't like abortion, but I'll defend a woman's right to recieve one."[/QUOTE]You're right. I am. You flat out do not get to disagree with someone being who they are or being treated as an equal. I do not give a fuck about anyone who says "Well I disagree with it." or "I think its wrong." or whatever crap. They do not get to. They deserve no respect. They deserve no standing ground. They deserve no voice. And I'll be damned if I'll let them think they'll get them without a fight. So fuck anyone who tries to stand up for a bigoted view, you need to get knocked back down.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;44794323]You're right. I am. You flat out do not get to disagree with someone being who they are or being treated as an equal. I do not give a fuck about anyone who says "Well I disagree with it." or "I think its wrong." or whatever crap. They do not get to. They deserve no respect. They deserve no standing ground. They deserve no voice. And I'll be damned if I'll let them think they'll get them without a fight. So fuck anyone who tries to stand up for a bigoted view, you need to get knocked back down.[/QUOTE] And that's your opinion. Honestly, even if I don't try and stop gays from marrying, I shouldn't be able to voice my own opinions? You seem to be making this bigger than it should be.

[QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;44794334]And that's your opinion. Honestly, even if I don't try and stop gays from marrying,[B] I shouldn't be able to voice my own opinions?[/B] You seem to be making this bigger than it should be.[/QUOTE]At the end of the day, I'd say you shouldn't. Not that you can't, but you shouldn't. And if you do, you should expect society to rip you apart for it. There is no obligation to be tolerant of intolerance. If you are intolerant to someone for being gay or black or whatever, you deserve to be ostracized from the rest of society. There are zero fucks that should be given about you.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;44794501]At the end of the day, I'd say you shouldn't. Not that you can't, but you shouldn't. And if you do, you should expect society to rip you apart for it. There is no obligation to be tolerant of intolerance. If you are intolerant to someone for being gay or black or whatever, you deserve to be ostracized from the rest of society. There are zero fucks that should be given about you.[/QUOTE] In today's day and age you can't expect to say something without society ripping you apart for it. We're a politically correct society where if you're opinions aren't politically correct, you better expect some hate. I've learned to not care what people say about my opinions, especially if they don't change their life in any way.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;44794501]At the end of the day, I'd say you shouldn't. Not that you can't, but you shouldn't. And if you do, you should expect society to rip you apart for it. [b]There is no obligation to be tolerant of intolerance.[/b] If you are intolerant to someone for being gay or black or whatever, you deserve to be ostracized from the rest of society. There are zero fucks that should be given about you.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;44790952]I disagree with gay marriage mainly because I think marriage is a bond between a man and woman. I'm Christian, and my religion has nothing to do with it. [b]I don't care if two men or women get married, though. It doesn't affect me. I don't try and dictate other's lives on my opinion.[/b] I live my life by it, and that's it. As I said, though, the government doesn't have the right to say who you can/can't marry.[/QUOTE] Except he's not intolerant at all?

[QUOTE=TheLolrus;44794544]Except he's not intolerant at all?[/QUOTE]Yes, by saying he disagrees at all, that is intolerance. Just because he makes some handwave remark about "Well, I don't care if they do." doesn't change the fact he said he disagrees with it and with them. And he's said more bigoted shit in the past, so its not like this is a one off thing for him. [editline]12th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;44794530]In today's day and age you can't expect to say something without society ripping you apart for it. We're a politically correct society where if you're opinions aren't politically correct, you better expect some hate. I've learned to not care what people say about my opinions, especially if they don't change their life in any way.[/QUOTE]And with any luck, more pressure will be put on you until you simply remove yourself from the rest of society and isolate yourself, or society will do it for you. Or if we get especially lucky, you'll actually change.

[QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;44794530]In today's day and age you can't expect to say something without society ripping you apart for it. We're a politically correct society where if you're opinions aren't politically correct, you better expect some hate. I've learned to not care what people say about my opinions, especially if they don't change their life in any way.[/QUOTE] if your opinions are dumb and backwards you are probably going to be told so by people who are irritated by them if you support the government having no say in restricting people from getting married based on gender, you (hopefully) realize that the bond between those two is important above any religion or law the fact that you CONTINUE to disagree with it in the face of this knowledge just makes you worse, especially because your only reasoning is "but i was raised this way" people can and do change and better themselves in spite of their upbringing, you just arent so stop rationalizing it with having been brought up that way because its no excuse \/ \/ \/ yeah and theres a reason people dont respect your opinion

[QUOTE=Bazsil;44794578]if your opinions are dumb and backwards you are probably going to be told so by people who are irritated by them if you support the government having no say in restricting people from getting married based on gender, you (hopefully) realize that the bond between those two is important above any religion or law the fact that you CONTINUE to disagree with it in the face of this knowledge just makes you worse, especially because your only reasoning is "but i was raised this way" people can and do change and better themselves in spite of their upbringing, you just arent so stop rationalizing it with having been brought up that way because its no excuse \/ \/ \/ yeah and theres a reason people dont respect your opinion[/QUOTE] Growing up my family were my best friends. I was never a social kid. I didn't get my views from my peers as I didn't interact with them much. My views are based off of my family as they were the biggest part of my life. My grandparents specifically. I know people don't respect my opinion. I don't expect everyone to. I don't expect everyone to respect any of my opinions. This discussion is obviously going nowhere. I'm going to stop posting about it, now.

[QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;44794596]Growing up my family were my best friends. I was never a social kid. I didn't get my views from my peers as I didn't interact with them much. My views are based off of my family as they were the biggest part of my life. My grandparents specifically. I know people don't respect my opinion. I don't expect everyone to. I don't expect everyone to respect any of my opinions. This discussion is obviously going nowhere. I'm going to stop posting about it, now.[/QUOTE] I am gay and I respect your views and your ability to voice your opinions without attempting to change someone's way of life. I wouldn't try to force you or anyone else into believing something they don't want to believe. Thank you for your consideration of others and know that it is precious to the whole of the community

[QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;44794189]I guess you could say it relates back to how I was raised. I come from a traditional, old style family.[/QUOTE] And that is considered a reasonable excuse to continue holding an opinion that is quite bigoted? I get that you don't go out of your way to make anyone else's lives hard; but to hold an opinion like that and act surprised when people tell you its wrong shouldn't come as a surprise. I mean, really; entrenching yourself in a belief like that simply because, "It's hows I's raised!" is ridiculous. Essentially you're accepting the fact that you don't even hold value in something originally decided for yourself; but something hammered into you from a young age. It's indoctrination regardless of how you cut this cake. Now, I get that everyone is entitled to an opinion; I'm not arguing that. Though; if your opinion is bigoted and backwards as fuck I'll inform you--politely. Sure, it's your opinion, but on a civil rights matter such as this your opinion is wrong. Just like how most civilized people would find it wrong for someone to hold an opinion that the Jewish race is inferior; or dating outside of your race is wrong. Plus, what really is a good family? If you think for a moment that a "good" family entirely depends on the gender and orientation of the parents that is dead wrong. It's good values such as altruism, empathy, and general connection to your fellow man that any decent parents teach their children. A mum and a dad aren't the only ones capable of accomplishing such a task. I suppose the reason I'm continuing this discussion is because I at one point was very much the same way; entrenched in my parent's hand-me-down Christian religion that enforced and incited such backwards views. Just because I was born into and raised in a belief system such as that didn't mean I would never have the opportunity to evolve my own thinking and define my own identity.

[QUOTE=Bredirish123;44794849]And that is considered a reasonable excuse to continue holding an opinion that is quite bigoted? I get that you don't go out of your way to make anyone else's lives hard; but to hold an opinion like that and act surprised when people tell you its wrong shouldn't come as a surprise. I mean, really; entrenching yourself in a belief like that simply because, "It's hows I's raised!" is ridiculous. Essentially you're accepting the fact that you don't even hold value in something originally decided for yourself; but something hammered into you from a young age. It's indoctrination regardless of how you cut this cake. Now, I get that everyone is entitled to an opinion; I'm not arguing that. Though; if your opinion is bigoted and backwards as fuck I'll inform you--politely. Sure, it's your opinion, but on a civil rights matter such as this your opinion is wrong. Just like how most civilized people would find it wrong for someone to hold an opinion that the Jewish race is inferior; or dating outside of your race is wrong. Plus, what really is a good family? If you think for a moment that a "good" family entirely depends on the gender and orientation of the parents that is dead wrong. It's good values such as altruism, empathy, and general connection to your fellow man that any decent parents teach their children. A mum and a dad aren't the only ones capable of accomplishing such a task. I suppose the reason I'm continuing this discussion is because I at one point was very much the same way; entrenched in my parent's hand-me-down Christian religion that enforced and incited such backwards views. Just because I was born into and raised in a belief system such as that didn't mean I would never have the opportunity to evolve my own thinking and define my own identity.[/QUOTE] However, unlike you, he isn't trying to force his opinions on others.

Oh my fucking... Just... He's allowed to have a goddamn opinion ffs and it's not even hurting anyone so fuck off [editline]12th May 2014[/editline] I hold the same opinion on the matter as most of you do on here. But he shouldn't even have to explain his opinion in depth just because it isn't the popular one...

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;44794323]You're right. I am. [B]You flat out do not get to disagree with someone being who they are or being treated as an equal[/B]. I do not give a fuck about anyone who says "Well I disagree with it." or "I think its wrong." or whatever crap. They do not get to. They deserve no respect. They deserve no standing ground. They deserve no voice. And I'll be damned if I'll let them think they'll get them without a fight. [B]So fuck anyone who tries to stand up for a bigoted view[/B], you need to get knocked back down.[/QUOTE] Dude he said about 50 fuckin times that he doesn't disagree with [I]being gay[/I]. He said his PERSONAL view is that he doesnt believe someone should marry someone of the same gender, and that is perfectly acceptable. he [I]literally[/I] said he supports their right to marriage. you're acting like he's the kind of person that would vote against gay marriage, when he very clearly stated he supports it get your head out of your ass. [QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;44794334]And that's your opinion. Honestly, even if I don't try and stop gays from marrying, I shouldn't be able to voice my own opinions? You seem to be making this bigger than it should be.[/QUOTE] As a pansexual male i have absolutely no problem with you believing what you believe, and I think that despite your personal beliefs, I'm glad you're in support of equal rights. So thank you

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;44794323]You're right. I am. You flat out do not get to disagree with someone being who they are or being treated as an equal. I do not give a fuck about anyone who says "Well I disagree with it." or "I think its wrong." or whatever crap. They do not get to. They deserve no respect. They deserve no standing ground. They deserve no voice. And I'll be damned if I'll let them think they'll get them without a fight. So fuck anyone who tries to stand up for a bigoted view, you need to get knocked back down.[/QUOTE] Sensationalist Headlines v. Doctor Zedacon, Thoughtcrime Police

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;44795362]Dude he said about 50 fuckin times that he doesn't disagree with [I]being gay[/I]. He said his PERSONAL view is that he doesnt believe someone should marry someone of the same gender, and that is perfectly acceptable. he [I]literally[/I] said he supports their right to marriage. you're acting like he's the kind of person that would vote against gay marriage, when he very clearly stated he supports it get your head out of your ass.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Bredirish123;44788575]I don't really think you have a right to disagree with someone's orientation. That would be like disagreeing with someone's skin color. Race or sexual orientation isn't something you happen to choose; so to say you disagree with it is silly.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;44790952]That's the beauty of this country; I [I]do[/I] have the right to disagree with something if I want to.[/QUOTE] The fact he even holds that view shows he has an inherent problem with people being gay because that is the core issue, people who are gay being allowed to marry. He's just playing a fucking word game to act like its not. Hell, look at what he says, he only "supports" it because of the fear a Big Gubment.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;44795723]The fact he even holds that view shows he has an inherent problem with people being gay because that is the core issue, people who are gay being allowed to marry. He's just playing a fucking word game to act like its not. Hell, look at what he says, he only "supports" it because of the fear a Big Gubment.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;44785669]Though I personally disagree with gay marriage, the government has no right to say who you can/can't marry. Religion should not have anything to do with the law, either, since we do have freedom of Religion.[/QUOTE] I think you're confusing "fear" with "reasonable expectations for how the government should operate" you're the reason why people dont take lgbt activists seriously, you're doing nothing for the movement by making an ass of yourself and putting words in other peoples mouths

Also, this isn't the first time he has pulled this, "Muh opinion!" and "I disagree!" shit. It's literally just a word game to him. [URL]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1331319&p=43095385&highlight=#post43095385[/URL] [URL]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1331319&p=43095813&highlight=#post43095813[/URL] [editline]13th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=LZTYBRN;44795735]I think you're confusing "fear" with "reasonable expectations for how the government should operate" you're the reason why people dont take lgbt activists seriously, you're doing nothing for the movement by making an ass of yourself and putting words in other peoples mouths[/QUOTE]I'm not putting words in his mouth, I'm using his words. Considering that notion of "reasonable expectations" is entirely idiotic and completely at odds with its purpose, its just paranoid fear and bigotry. And I will not stand for it. Marriage is an institution of government, pure and simple, to say otherwise is to have literally no clue what you are talking about. So to say it is unreasonable for the government to have a say in a government institution is like saying it is unreasonable for a military to have a say in military procedure. [editline]13th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=redsoxrock;44795254]However, unlike you, he isn't trying to force his opinions on others.[/QUOTE]You act like I actually give a fuck, which by this point it should be established I don't. Not all opinions are equal, and opinions like his are especially shit. If some asshole says blacks and whites should not be allowed to marry, they are disgusting and vile. Its only "ok" here because its gay people.

personally i believe blacks should not be able to marry whites, but i don't think the government should be allowed to mandate it. just a reasonable opinion nothing wrong here

Fuck off, mate. Seriously. You don't control the thoughts of others. He hasn't said an ounce of anything that would imply he's opposing gay marriage, just his personal opinion. Everyone's gonna have an opinion that's different from yours, it should only matter when they turn that opinion into an action. He hasn't done such, and you're bitching purely for the sake of bitching. I'm totally okay with gay marriage as I've stated before, and I think that as long as opinion doesn't become action on that matter, then it's okay to think what you want to. If this thread's shown anything, you've done nothing but become the living embodiment of "How dare you don't like thing". Who will see you as credible in any environment when you can't respect the opinions of people when they don't affect your life or the lives of others in reality?

it's not like they're saying that the government should be forcing people to have this or that opinion, they're just saying that the opinion that people shouldn't be allowed to marry because they're gay is not worthy of respect. is hating blacks something you should respect so long as the person doesn't think the government should be allowed to make laws against blacks?

[QUOTE=Water-Marine;44795858]Fuck off, mate. Seriously. You don't control the thoughts of others.[/QUOTE]No, but I'm damn well going to do everything possible can to get them to change or entirely removed from society. Why do people think I give a fuck about a bigot's "right" to be a bigot and have bigoted thoughts? [QUOTE]He hasn't said an ounce of anything that would imply he's opposing gay marriage, just his personal opinion. Everyone's gonna have an opinion that's different from yours, it should only matter when they turn that opinion into an action. He hasn't done such, and you're bitching purely for the sake of bitching.[/QUOTE]How has he not? What the fuck is "disagreeing" with it? He doesn't get the right to be a bigot, no one does, and people who are rightfully deserve to be shit on. [QUOTE]I'm totally okay with gay marriage as I've stated before, and I think that as long as opinion doesn't become action on that matter, then it's okay to think what you want to. If this thread's shown anything, you've done nothing but become the living embodiment of "How dare you don't like thing". Who will see you as credible in any environment when you can't respect the opinions of people when they don't affect your life or the lives of others in reality?[/QUOTE]They do affect my life because he is a bigot sharing a bigoted opinion. We do not exist in a world where opinions are weightless. The core of the issue is that by "disagreeing" with gay marriage you are being inherently discriminating. You are unavoidable discriminating against gay people. So to say "He's not discriminating towards gays." is flat out wrong. And as I showed, he has done this whole "I 'disagree' with this." crap before except then he admitted outright that he thought it should be illegal and got rightfully called out about how dumb he was. Now he's just playing the word game better.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;44795723]The fact he even holds that view shows he has an inherent problem with people being gay because that is the core issue, people who are gay being allowed to marry. He's just playing a fucking word game to act like its not. Hell, look at what he says, he only "supports" it because of the fear a Big Gubment.[/QUOTE] You're to the LGBT community as tumblr style "cis scum" people are to feminism. You're doing more damage than he ever will.

[QUOTE=Crimor;44795925]You're to the LGBT community as tumblr style "cis scum" people are to feminism. You're doing more damage than he ever will.[/QUOTE]Ok, big deal. I'm still right. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("At the expense of threadshitting" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;44795972]Ok, big deal. I'm still right.[/QUOTE] not really

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;44795973]not really[/QUOTE]He is abjectly wrong. At the very least I'm better than that.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;44795978]He is abjectly wrong. At the very least I'm better than that.[/QUOTE] no, you're not

[QUOTE=LZTYBRN;44795982]no, you're not[/QUOTE]I'll always be better than a bigot. And better than those who defend them.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;44796108]I'll always be better than a bigot. And better than those who defend them.[/QUOTE] Keep telling yourself that, but to me you seem like the bigot right now.

[QUOTE=Crimor;44796142]Keep telling yourself that, but to me you seem like the bigot right now.[/QUOTE]Not really. I'm intolerant of people who are needlessly intolerant. He's the root problem by being intolerant of gays (don't say he isn't, he is and is just covering it up with "Well its just [I]gay marriage[/I]!") and therefore I am intolerant of him. He can change his views and stop being a bigot, gay people will always be gay and cannot and should not have to change that. There is zero obligation to be tolerant of intolerance.