• Mass Shooting Season 2014 still going strong as four+ are wounded at Seattle Pacific University
    474 replies, posted
[QUOTE=opti2000;45012486]Why cant you americans live without guns? Or atleast with a better gun law? I mean in europe nobody really needs a gun at home and everything is fine.[/QUOTE] This shit again? Give me a break.
[QUOTE=darunner;45012739]Fine. Your house is on fire, and you can't stop it by yourself. You dial 110. How long before help arrives?[/QUOTE] Well i think around 10 minutes. Edit: i googled it and the average time is 10,9 minutes.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;45010969]Considering that guns are basically written all over your constitution, that's.. Impossible said than done.[/QUOTE] a country can amend it's constitution
[QUOTE=opti2000;45012755]Well i think around 10 minutes.[/QUOTE] Okay, so 10 minutes for help to arrive and you're in immediate risk of death. Do you sit there in area of risk, or do you make an action to protect yourself? I used to live in Aurora, CO. About 15 minutes away from the theater that was shot up just about 2 years ago. I've called the cops regarding multiple armed intruders breaking into a neighbor's house at night. It took police 20 minutes to arrive after I called.
[QUOTE=darunner;45012791]Okay, so 10 minutes for help to arrive and you're in immediate risk of death. Do you sit there in area of risk, or do you make an action to protect yourself? I used to live in Aurora, CO. About 15 minutes away from the theater that was shot up just about 2 years ago. I've called the cops regarding multiple armed intruders breaking into a neighbor's house at night. It took police 20 minutes to arrive after I called.[/QUOTE] Allright but i live in germany and something like this never happened to me. And we dont expect those things would happen.
[QUOTE=opti2000;45012822]Allright but i live in germany and something like this never happened to me. And we dont expect those things would happen.[/QUOTE] A German exchange student once complimented how organized and orderly the fire drills here are; he said that in Germany if a fire were to break out "everyone would probably die"
[QUOTE=BFG9000;45012894]A German exchange student once complimented how organized and orderly the fire drills here are; he said that in Germany if a fire were to break out "everyone would probably die"[/QUOTE] man good thing you know all about germanys safety procedures from one joke that a german guy made
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;45012908]man good thing you know all about germanys safety procedures from one joke that a german guy made[/QUOTE] Well he was serious, and it wasn't related to the discussion, just an interesting side note that was relevant only to that specific post
Ever notice how ALL mass shooters target unarmed populations? Guns are a deterrent to crime. For the same reason police practice omnipresence. A mass shooter wants to kill people, and he's going to target the densest, most defenseless population he can. Put two and two together folks. And for the love of god don't conclude that the answer is fish.
[QUOTE=viper720666;45012945]Ever notice how ALL mass shooters target unarmed populations? Guns are a deterrent to crime. For the same reason police practice omnipresence. A mass shooter wants to kill people, and he's going to target the densest, most defenseless population he can. Put two and two together folks. And for the love of god don't conclude that the answer is fish.[/QUOTE] Arming people is irresponsible. Someone might hurt the shooter!
[QUOTE=viper720666;45012945]Ever notice how ALL mass shooters target unarmed populations? Guns are a deterrent to crime. For the same reason police practice omnipresence. A mass shooter wants to kill people, and he's going to target the densest, most defenseless population he can. Put two and two together folks. And for the love of god don't conclude that the answer is fish.[/QUOTE] In Canada it seems they go for the armed municipality... this has held true for every mass shooting except for Canadian Rambo
[QUOTE=usaokay;45012760][B]Gunman has been subdued by a student[/B] [url]http://bigstory.ap.org/article/seattle-police-least-2-shot-seattle-campus[/url] big damn hero[/QUOTE] Huh. It's kinda surreal hearing this, like you'd never think a person could be so calm.
[QUOTE=viper720666;45012945]Ever notice how ALL mass shooters target unarmed populations? Guns are a deterrent to crime. For the same reason police practice omnipresence. A mass shooter wants to kill people, and he's going to target the densest, most defenseless population he can. Put two and two together folks. And for the love of god don't conclude that the answer is fish.[/QUOTE] Slowly removing a culture of excessive gun ownership will also make it less likely that a mass shooter will even know where to get a firearm, how to operate it effectively, and not be spotted anytime in intermediate steps. Mass shootings are rare in countries like Britain for that reason. Guns are hard to obtain here. It is not something easily hidden. You have less opportunity to practice with them than you do in the state. The people in the country as a whole do not tolerate guns as much as Americans. It can still happen, but the probability is much much less likely. And what's one way of changing the culture around guns? Reducing the number of situations in which it is socially acceptable to wield and use firearms. Since the 19th century, the use of firearms in American society has become less socially acceptable.
[QUOTE=Blazedol;45013000]Huh. It's kinda surreal hearing this, like you'd never think a person could be so calm.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't say calm. I'm sure instinct took over. I'm impressed they didn't freeze up or run for the hills though. I'd hope I'd be able to do the same if the need ever arises. [video=youtube;-Wq3Zc468dg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wq3Zc468dg#t=100[/video]
[QUOTE=viper720666;45013031]I wouldn't say calm. I'm sure instinct took over. I'm impressed they didn't freeze up or run for the hills though. I'd hope I'd be able to do the same if the need ever arises. [video=youtube;-Wq3Zc468dg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wq3Zc468dg#t=100[/video][/QUOTE] Well from the sound of it, they made a plan beforehand [quote]A student building monitor at Seattle Pacific University disarmed the gunman after he entered the foyer at Otto Miller Hall, and several other students jumped on top of him and pinned him down until police officers arrived, police said.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;45013006]Slowly removing a culture of excessive gun ownership will also make it less likely that a mass shooter will even know where to get a firearm, [B]how to operate it effectively[/B], and not be spotted anytime in intermediate steps. Mass shootings are rare in countries like Britain for that reason. Guns are hard to obtain here. It is not something easily hidden. You have less opportunity to practice with them than you do in the state. The people in the country as a whole do not tolerate guns as much as Americans. It can still happen, but the probability is much much less likely. And what's one way of changing the culture around guns? Reducing the number of situations in which it is socially acceptable to wield and use firearms. Since the 19th century, the use of firearms in American society has become less socially acceptable.[/QUOTE] [t]http://i.imgur.com/AUJ29sU.jpg[/t] If anything firearms have become far more socially acceptable in the current era. Most kids today are growing up hearing about firearms or will have some knowledge of how to use and operate a firearm. I was born and raised in NY, and my childhood was saturated with firearms from simple BB Guns to a semi-auto AK-74. I am not exactly an expert on firearms, but I have known how to pick one up, load it, and chamber the round in one since about the age of three or four. It really isn't rocket science. One problem we'll face through out this age of information is the fact that censoring anything has become near impossible with the invention of the world wide web. It's incredibly easy to find things which will teach you the basics of how to use a firearm or rather teach you how to build a firearm if you have enough patience. So long as we have a history books teaching people about warfare, so long as we have Science classes teaching kids about chemicals, so long as we have woodworking and metal work classes... We will always have people making things that they shouldn't have, because curiosity kills the cat. And in the case of the internet, some fucker has taught a bunch of fourteen year olds on how to make Chloride Gas.
[url]http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this,36131/[/url] Still relevant
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;45013074][t]http://i.imgur.com/AUJ29sU.jpg[/t] If anything firearms have become far more socially acceptable in the current era. Most kids today are growing up hearing about firearms or will have some knowledge of how to use and operate a firearm. I was born and raised in NY, and my childhood was saturated with firearms from simple BB Guns to a semi-auto AK-74. I am not exactly an expert on firearms, but I have known how to pick one up, load it, and chamber the round in one since about the age of three or four. It really isn't rocket science. One problem we'll face through out this age of information is the fact that censoring anything has become near impossible with the invention of the world wide web. It's incredibly easy to find things which will teach you the basics of how to use a firearm or rather teach you how to build a firearm if you have enough patience. So long as we have a history books teaching people about warfare, so long as we have Science classes teaching kids about chemicals, so long as we have woodworking and metal work classes... We will always have people making things that they shouldn't have, because curiosity kills the cat.[/QUOTE] Maybe there wouldn't be so many shootings committed at schools, universities etc in the US if kids aren't surrounded by guns and gun culture where and when they are raised. Probably teaches you all that guns are a form of problem solving, when they really shouldn't be. Really, why would a civilian need an AK74?
[QUOTE=Antdawg;45013133]Maybe there wouldn't be so many shootings committed at schools, universities etc in the US if kids aren't surrounded by guns and gun culture where and when they are raised. Probably teaches you all that guns are a form of problem solving, when they really shouldn't be. Really, why would a civilian need an AK74?[/QUOTE] We should teach kids tons of things, but most parents cannot be fucked to teach their kids about the consequences of their actions. I cannot understand for the life of me why we do not have firearm safety classes in public education. If are culture is saturated with firearms, we should teach people safe practices regarding firearms. And why should we entrust anyone with the life of another? Like a parent caring for their young, having and using a firearm in certain cases is a responsibility. You know what would happen to a parent who starts neglecting their responsibility as a parent? They have their child taken away. Does this mean we take away children from all parents? No. Because only one group of parents screwed up. Same thing with firearms. If you make the choice to neglect the rules of safety and someone ends up getting hurt or killed because of it, you goto jail and most of your firearms are taken away. We entrust that the majority of firearm owners will not act foolish and will not harm others and for the most part it has been working. Gun crime is on the decline, while firearm ownership has stabilized around 42%. 2/3rds of all gun deaths in our country are not even people taking the lives of other people, but instead people taking their own lives. The problem here is not firearm ownership.
[QUOTE=aydin690;45011188]The solution is simple, no citizen should be allowed to own guns. Fuck the 2nd amendment, it was written for a world that doesn't exist now. Just look at Australia. Give people a year to hand in all of their weapons or else face imprisonment or other harsh punishments. Of course that's never going to happen because the average pro-gun american values their weekend hobby more than people's lives.[/QUOTE] Hi friend I live in Australia The problem with using Australia as an example of muh civilian safety!!! (and people keep doing this, without actually knowing what they are talking about) is outside of biased infographics that conveniently leave out the prior years to current gun legislation, the reality is Australia has never had notable firearm homicide, even when every farmer and his dog owned a battle rifle. There was a downward trend in firearm homicide and violent crime in general from about the 80s onwards, and it continued as such well past gun control. Effectively, gun control was something of a non-factor. Australia doesn't have many mass murders in general because we don't have the same density of population (using per capita is dishonest when proximity is a very real factor in violent crime) and because we have a much much better quality of life in general, not to mention mental health care. That makes a significant difference, and no US politician wants to talk about that because making monkey amendments on current gun policy is easy to make it look like you're doing something, addressing deeply rooted social problems is much harder. So please, stop using Australia as an example, and p.s we still have firearms. New Zealand has very relaxed gun policy compared to ours, and yet they have even less firearm homicide. Its not really a factor, it doesn't address the root cause of why someone would want to slaughter people. Secondly, your asinine solution has several fundamental problems in the US: 1. the sheer amount of firearms This is most fundamental problem with a blanket ban, is the US has both a ridiculously huge civilian and black market circulation of firearms that even if you threatened state action on otherwise lawfully abiding citizens (and it worries me that you think this is appropriate), you would at best make a small dent in the amount of firearms in circulation. At worst you basically provide the mexican cartels and other organized crime with yet another proxy-rendered income sources thanks to the state. 2. "a world that doesn't exist now" With the now well documented breaches of both constitutional laws protecting its own citizens, and international law, as well as human right abuses by the US govt, its extremely ignorant or requires a huge amount of cognitive dissonance to think we don't live in a world where a government can turn tyrannical. There's a lot of emotion in your statement but not much critical thought. 3. Media sensationalizes shooting Like or not, the media is a business and business is good when mass shootings happen. Literally, the media is incentivized to blow spree shootings out of proportion. The reality is more black kids kill other black kids in urban areas every single week and nobody bats an eye because its just assumed as normal. Why aren't people talking about that? Because you solve that and thats like well over half of the US's firearm homicide statistics out the window. Oh but of course to solve that you would need to dramatically improve the quality of life in those areas and that's a lot harder than banning scary looking features on a gun or something equally asinine.
[QUOTE=ntzu;45010890]Easier said than done[/QUOTE] 'Easier said than done', says only country that refuses to do anything.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45013155]Maybe there wouldn't be so many shootings if we had our shit straight and started trying to tackle the hard issues instead of blaming guns for everyone's problems. But guns are the problem. In a country with such massive income disparity, underlying institutional racism, and crumbling infrastructure, guns are the ultimate problem.[/QUOTE] Oh yeah, of course. There's nothing that can be done about [I]any[/I] of those issues if people turn their attention to firearms.
[QUOTE=ntzu;45010890]Easier said than done[/QUOTE] so is helping the mentally ill if fixing this problem was easy, it would be done by now.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45012841] Takes time, money, and tax increases, to fix. Something that congress isn't going to do because it's easier to demonize guns and their owners, and the public will eat it up, because its easier to accept guns as evil than it is to say "damn the system is fucked up, we really have to fix this".[/QUOTE] Well also because Republicans who almost completely represent conservative interests at the federal level would oppose virtually every suggestion you made. GOP stonewalling against any sort of national welfare and education hikes does far more damage than on again off again Democratic gun control attempts .
If I somehow ever make $100,000 I am going to make a Capitalist Party under the belief of a healthy consumer base. :v:
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45013155]Maybe there wouldn't be so many shootings if we had our shit straight and started trying to tackle the hard issues instead of blaming guns for everyone's problems. But guns are the problem. In a country with such massive income disparity, underlying institutional racism, and crumbling infrastructure, guns are the ultimate problem.[/QUOTE] Guns are part of the problem.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;45013133]Maybe there wouldn't be so many shootings committed at schools, universities etc in the US if kids aren't surrounded by guns and gun culture where and when they are raised. Probably teaches you all that guns are a form of problem solving, when they really shouldn't be. Really, why would a civilian need an AK74?[/QUOTE] I think it's both that and the intense glorification of these mass shootings. Anytime something like this happens (especially the exceptionally bad ones like Sandy Hook or Columbine), it's on the news media for DAYS afterwords, and it ends up that everyone knows the shooter's name as well as why they did what they did. Other mentally disturbed people see this, and for some it's enough of a trigger to go out and commit copycat killing sprees in the possible hopes of getting equally recognized. It's already been said ad nausem in this thread, but there are at least four major factors that need to be fixed if we want these shootings to be significantly reduced, the four being a revamp of our mental healthcare system and the removal of the negative stigma surrounding getting mental help, stricter gun policies, less glorification of the weapons themselves, and no longer glorifying the shooter in the news media. Now all of those are obviously easier said than done, but #4 alone would make a big difference.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;45013367]Guns are part of the problem.[/QUOTE] in the time that it would take to implement effective gun legislation that doesn't alienate a significant sect of the american public, we could be spending time and effort on resolving issues that will ultimately lower crime rates and improve people's lives, rather than preventing them from getting worse.
[QUOTE=joes33431;45013464]in the time that it would take to implement effective gun legislation that doesn't alienate a significant sect of the american public, we could be spending time and effort on resolving issues that will ultimately lower crime rates and improve people's lives, rather than preventing them from getting worse.[/QUOTE] Ok, why not do that and enact gun legislation as well?
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;45011328]Correct me if I'm wrong but Elliot Rodger was seeing a therapist and that didn't magically inhibit his shooting. [/QUOTE] Elliot Rodger slipped through the cracks. Everyone knew he was fucked up, he'd been screened by the police and by mental health professionals, both failed. He somehow was able to buy [I]handguns[/I] legally when he should have never been able to do that. And he did it in fucking California of all places. Let that sink in, handguns are harder to obtain than semi-automatic rifles due to their small size. Yet he was able to purchase several of them from different stores. That's a failing of 3 different screening bodies, the law enforcers, the healthcare professionals, and the gun stores themselves. He's a bad example for gun control if California's own strict system somehow failed to stop him.
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