Mass Shooting Season 2014 still going strong as four+ are wounded at Seattle Pacific University
474 replies, posted
[QUOTE=viper720666;45018462]That would be a great idea, if banning guns prevented 10,00+ deaths. Too bad it won't. They tried it in the 1994 assault weapons ban and guess what? Didn't work!
[editline]6th June 2014[/editline]
Really? Mine aren't. They're objects. Maybe a little noisy when I use them, but I've fired 15,000+ rounds and haven't hurt so much as a squirrel. I mean, don't get me wrong, I've done a number on paper....[/QUOTE]
No, banning weapons won't help uneducated people. Perhaps we should.. dare i say it... educate?
[editline]6th June 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=viper720666;45018462]
Really? Mine aren't. They're objects. Maybe a little noisy when I use them, but I've fired 15,000+ rounds and haven't hurt so much as a squirrel. I mean, don't get me wrong, I've done a number on paper....[/QUOTE]
I don't have a problem with people using guns for recreational purposes, but then there should be no issues with it being kept at the range?
Look, I don't understand why you think toilets are meant for shit and piss? They're objects. I've used my toilet bowl for tech deck tournaments with my friends, but I can't say I've ever put any human waste in it.
[QUOTE=shakey42;45018484]No, banning weapons won't help uneducated people. Perhaps we should.. dare i say it... educate?
[editline]6th June 2014[/editline]
I don't have a problem with people using guns for recreational purposes, but then there should be no issues with it being kept at the range?[/QUOTE]
Sort this chart any way you like (total, homicides, suicides, unintentional) America seem to be in the top 15.. way to go represent the western world. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate[/url]
[QUOTE=shakey42;45018535]Sort this chart any way you like[/QUOTE]
They're actually 22nd in "undetermined" firearm deaths.
I'M NOT ARGUING SEMANTICS!
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45018416]Yes. Did you see the article I linked about how 80% of mass shootings are using legally acquired firearms?
You can say "self-defense" but if you go around and shoot your wife and kids or go and shoot up a school then it's obviously not being used for self-defense.[/QUOTE]
From that link:
[QUOTE]"Guns used" may include firearms belonging to the shooter that were not used at the crime scene but later recovered elsewhere by investigators.[/QUOTE]
From their source, for many of these "legally obtained weapons" I'm seeing a lot of "Where obtained: unkown" and "legally obtained: some" being counted. So your 80% is sounding a little inflated. And that 80% still makes up less than one half of one percent of all gun owners, if you want to get into statistics. Also there doesn't seem to be ANY geographic pattern between states that have lax gun laws and states that have strict, further invalidating the argument that gun control fixes the issue.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45018383]Not semantics? Dude I'm obviously not talking about nail-guns.[/QUOTE]
I really don't know how to explain this to you any more clearly.
[url]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gun[/url]
[QUOTE] a : a piece of ordnance usually with high muzzle velocity and comparatively flat trajectory
b : a portable firearm (as a rifle or handgun)
c : a device that throws a projectile
2
a : a discharge of a gun especially as a salute or signal
b : a signal marking a beginning or ending [/QUOTE]
I don't see anything that says "Object that is designed to kill, maim, or injure".
Bottom line is that they aren't designed to kill, maim, or injure. They are designed to throw a projectile. Saying that they are "designed to kill" is just blatantly false.
[QUOTE=Andokool12;45018401]Yes perfect now this is what I call a premium bazinga, bottom line is if somebody says gun I am going to immediately hound them with semantics on not being specific enough. "Oh a glue gun? Why would you want gun control on a glue gun?" is the kinda hot material I dish out while doing my best not to howl with laughter.[/QUOTE]
Nice way to miss the entire point. Nice to know you can't comprehend entire posts. Or maybe it's because I'm right and you can't defend your position with anything other than "how you feel".
Why does everyone go into shooting threads when the event happens in the US and proceed to shit it up?
None of this shit happened in the Canadian manhunt thread.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;45018564]I really don't know how to explain this to you any more clearly.
[url]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gun[/url]
I don't see anything that says "Object that is designed to kill, maim, or injure".
Bottom line is that they aren't designed to kill, maim, or injure. They are designed to throw a projectile. Saying that they are "designed to kill" is just blatantly false. [/QUOTE]
Guns are designed to kill, man or animal. But that doesn't mean they're being sold today for every gun owner to go out and murder somebody. A lot of things where designed to kill or for military use that we use every day now, like GPS.
[QUOTE=shakey42;45018484]No, banning weapons won't help uneducated people. Perhaps we should.. dare i say it... educate?
[editline]6th June 2014[/editline]
I don't have a problem with people using guns for recreational purposes, but then there should be no issues with it being kept at the range?[/QUOTE]
Keeping a gun at the range makes it difficult to protect myself god forbid my home gets broken into or a rabid animal attacks the neighbors. It also makes it quite difficult for me to work on my guns when I want to, and considering the nearest range is a 50 mile round trip, it hurts my gas tank as well. Not that I would trust leaving [I]my[/I] guns anywhere unattended other than my own fire-rated gun safe.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;45018564]Nice way to miss the entire point. Nice to know you can't comprehend entire posts. Or maybe it's because I'm right and you can't defend your position with anything other than "how you feel".[/QUOTE]
Oh shit... I am a lesser being compared to you... How are you so good at thinking? FUCK! I am inferior to this guy!
[editline]6th June 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;45018564][B]Or maybe it's because I'm right and you can't defend your position with anything other than "how you feel".[/B][/QUOTE]
Once again just want to re-iterate how good this post is, this is the kinda stuff where you read it and you just think "damn, this dude knows what he's doing". Hat's off to ya!
[QUOTE=Sir_takeslot;45018573]Why does everyone go into shooting threads when the event happens in the US and proceed to shit it up?
None of this shit happened in the Canadian manhunt thread.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about the other facepunchers but personally I'm a 2A supporter and I'm looking to feed my brain with some arguments against it. Brush up on my debating. But yeah, I'm pretty sure some people are just here to find an excuse to jump all over the "lets shit on the US" bandwagon as the world [I]loves[/I] to do.
[QUOTE=viper720666;45018610]I'm pretty sure some people are just here to find an excuse to jump all over the "lets shit on the US" bandwagon as the world [I]loves[/I] to do.[/QUOTE]
Unwarranted persecution complex
[QUOTE=DeEz;45017739]and thus more gun-related crimes
i think you unintentionally helped getting my point across here, good for you sport[/QUOTE]
thank you for reading the rest of my post
you sure are contributing a lot to this discussion
(stop post)
[QUOTE=
[url]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gun[/url]
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]a tool or device that looks like a gun[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but if webster defines an object as something that looks like it, I'm a little disappointed. That means Rosie O'donald really IS a hand dryer.
[QUOTE=viper720666;45018581]Keeping a gun at the range makes it difficult to protect myself god forbid my home gets broken into or a rabid animal attacks the neighbors. It also makes it quite difficult for me to work on my guns when I want to, and considering the nearest range is a 50 mile round trip, it hurts my gas tank as well. Not that I would trust leaving [I]my[/I] guns anywhere unattended other than my own fire-rated gun safe.[/QUOTE]
What are you protecting yourself from??? people with guns? oh wait...
[QUOTE=shakey42;45018638]What are you protecting yourself from??? people with guns? oh wait...[/QUOTE]
People with tools
[QUOTE=viper720666;45018610]I don't know about the other facepunchers but personally I'm a 2A supporter and I'm looking to feed my brain with some arguments against it. Brush up on my debating. But yeah, I'm pretty sure some people are just here to find an excuse to jump all over the "lets shit on the US" bandwagon as the world [I]loves[/I] to do.[/QUOTE]
Yeah. I didn't see "Omg Canadian police state" in the other thread when their swat arrived with mounted guns on their bear-cats. Wearing military uniforms with M4's and stuff.
[QUOTE=Andokool12;45018630]Unwarranted persecution complex[/QUOTE]
MY apologies. Would you like me to bend over?
[QUOTE=viper720666;45018663]MY apologies. Would you like me to bend over?[/QUOTE]
Haha this is also an unwarranted persecution complex??
[QUOTE=shakey42;45018638]What are you protecting yourself from??? people with guns? oh wait...[/QUOTE]
Possibly. Only difference is they probably got theirs illegally. Which would make things quite difficult if the cops came to my door because my gun is REGISTERED and told me to fork it over while the criminals' guns aren't on the grid.
[editline]6th June 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Andokool12;45018672]Haha this is also an unwarranted persecution complex??[/QUOTE]
Nah. But if I may ask, can we drop the personal attacks and get back to the debate?
Is the debate really still about guns being general tools and how using them to harm things is only what people choose to do with them
[QUOTE=viper720666;45018680]Possibly. Only difference is they probably got theirs illegally. Which would make things quite difficult if the cops came to my door because my gun is REGISTERED and told me to fork it over while the criminals' guns aren't on the grid.
[/QUOTE]
I'm retiring from this, it's like trying to convince a 5 year old child that candy is bad for him..
[QUOTE=shakey42;45018721]I'm retiring from this, it's like trying to convince a 5 year old child that candy is bad for him..[/QUOTE]
Enjoy. I'll be here with my guns [I]not[/I] killing people. thanks.
[QUOTE=racerfan;45010774]What's going on recently? I've heard about 4-5 incidents like this in the past two weeks alone. Three of them in the last two days.[/QUOTE]
It is a false perception. Mass shooting victims largely remain static year to year. The UCR catalogs this each year and shows little to no trending.
Nothing "needs to be done" because any action taken will require a disproportionate amount of resources to solve a problem that is a tiny drop in a bucket of other far more pressing issues. You could likely save far more lives simply by raising federal minimum wage a few dollars or expanding medicaid/medicare.
[QUOTE=viper720666;45018775]Enjoy. I'll be here with my guns [I]not[/I] killing people. thanks.[/QUOTE]
Based on this, I think the major divide here is you actually do have a bit of persecution complex about guns and it's clouding your perception of what the actual debate is or was. You seem to think people think that because you are into shooting guns that you are going to go on a shooting rampage, or you need to justify yourself as a gun owner. Nobody's thinking that though, and I don't think anybody is really concerned that specifically you are going to kill people because you have a gun or two.
[QUOTE=viper720666;45018610]Brush up on my debating. But yeah, I'm pretty sure some people are just here to find an excuse to jump all over the "lets shit on the US" bandwagon as the world [I]loves[/I] to do.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the only thing this has ever achieved with me is make me more nationalistic.
[editline]6th June 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Andokool12;45018630]Unwarranted persecution complex[/QUOTE]
Oh shut up, you know perfectly well it happens
All
The damn
Time
[QUOTE=GunFox;45018788]It is a false perception. Mass shooting victims largely remain static year to year. The UCR catalogs this each year and shows little to no trending.
Nothing "needs to be done" because any action taken will require a disproportionate amount of resources to solve a problem that is a tiny drop in a bucket of other far more pressing issues. You could likely save far more lives simply by raising federal minimum wage a few dollars or expanding medicaid/medicare.[/QUOTE]
They should do that too. They should do all these things.
The terrorist attacks on 9/11 happened almost 13 years ago, but we're still seeing the fallout today.
Being murdered abruptly versus problems due to living in poverty (because of a failures in the system) gather different levels of attention because one is seen as being more serious. I don't think people like the idea of dying "randomly."
[QUOTE=Andokool12;45018818]Based on this, I think the major divide here is you actually do have a bit of persecution complex about guns and it's clouding your perception of what the actual debate is or was. You seem to think people think that because you are into shooting guns that you are going to go on a shooting rampage, or you need to justify yourself as a gun owner. Nobody's thinking that though, and I don't think anybody is really concerned that specifically you are going to kill people because you have a gun or two.[/QUOTE]
No, I'm just re-emphasizing the point that mass-shooters make up an astronomically low percentage of gun owners. Gunfox pretty much speaks what I've been getting at. [QUOTE] a problem that is a tiny drop in a bucket of other far more pressing issues. [/QUOTE]
I'd feel unsafe even visiting America not knowing who is carrying a gun and who is safe to even look at without risking being shot. Many other civilised countries survive fine without guns and have next to no gun crime, I don't see the point of making it easier for criminals to get ahold of weapons just because of "freedom". There should be a limit to freedom because too much freedom has a negative impact rather than a positive one. I know this post will be rated dumb because that's what Americans do when a post isn't positive about guns, but I really don't care about ratings enough to hide my feelings about it.
[QUOTE=Zero-Point;45018451]The shitty thing about it is, a lot of the time, the shooter in question appears to be perfectly normal as they live their lives, keeping their darker sides a secret until they finally decide to let it go.[/QUOTE]
That's just not true. One of Cho Seung-Hui's (Virginia Tech) professors flat-out said she would rather resign than teach another class with him. Harris and Klebold were known as disturbed, submitting detailed, extremely violent works for high school classes. That guy who recently went on a rampage in CA was known to have problems and was already seeing multiple therapists.
Again and again, it's been shown that the initial 'omg he was such a good kid' reactions are total bullshit, that people don't just snap one day and go on a rampage, that there are signs for months or years that nobody acted on because who really wants to deal with the weird kid, it's easier to just ignore him. Then they steal a gun from friends or family (who didn't keep it secured) or manage to buy them legally (because mental health doesn't show up on a background check), and go on a killing spree.
There are numerous signs, but nobody acting on them, and no system that implements them in preventing people from buying guns.
[editline]6th June 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lord Xenoyia;45019916]I'd feel unsafe even visiting America not knowing who is carrying a gun and who is safe to even look at without risking being shot.[/QUOTE]
Nobody here is afraid of who is secretly carrying a gun. Nobody is worried about being shot just walking down the street. And certainly nobody is afraid to [i]look at people[/i] for fear of being shot. The vast majority of people in this country don't even know anybody who has been involved in a shooting, let alone been near one themselves. Three times more people are killed by cars than by firearms every day, and of those firearm deaths the overwhelming majority are gang-related and of no consequence to law-abiding citizens. In day to day life people being armed is a non-issue, and this is coming from someone who lives in the homicide capital of the United States.
I don't understand how people from the UK and Australia can claim to tell it 'like it is' to Americans and describe to us in great detail what our social problems are and how to fix them, when they don't seem to have any idea what living in the US is actually like.
You are more likely to be struck by lightening than killed in a mass shooting. Gun crime rates are going down, and have been for 20 years.
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