Two Muslim religious leaders removed from flight because pilot refused to fly with them
440 replies, posted
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;29676448]um... lol no?
[quote]it doesn't span from the nature of the religion's text [ie. the qur'an], it spans from the social situations of the nations where the religion is practised[/quote]
[/QUOTE]
Your right, here is a list of war tattered, third world countries who practice Sharia law and who's law of imprisonment for blasphemy is perfectly acceptable.
1. Algeria
2. Bangladesh
3. [b]Egypt[/b]
4. [b]Iraq[/b]
5. Kuwait
6. Libya
7. Malaysia
8. Maldives
9. Morocco
10. Somalia
11. Tunisia
12. [b]United Arab Emirates[/b]
Read more: [url]http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_countries_use_Sharia_Law#ixzz1LgtBYDkF[/url]
[QUOTE=pal670;29674550]Ask any Muslim 1 question, because I do not want to become a Muslim, but respect your religion, am I still a Kafir (basically a disbeliever).
They will tell you that you are, and in the Qur'an it clearly states that all Kafir must be beheaded and treated like a foul dog, and that if they do not turn to Islam that Holy War will be started upon which all Muslims, man, woman and child are called to arms to murder all Kafir.
Do a bit of research into it, read it for yourself.
Not suprised some people are starting to show signs of turning against it.[/QUOTE]
You talked to islamists. Muslim would never say that. Qur'ran forbids killing. Jihad means "holy war against unfaithul within youself". You're supposed do defeat yourself there. And you're not supposed to fight against any other religion, if someone's not violating your rights. For example, you're going to pray, and someone forbids it. Than you can punch him.
[QUOTE=>VLN<;29676221]On an overall scale, Islam is a much, much more violent religion than Christianity, as it is today, not withstanding Catholics which is basically a separate religion.
I don't see Christian suicide bombers.[/QUOTE]
Let's see, Christian terrorists. Well, not counting extreme anti-abortionists, who have shot abortion doctors and burned down clinics, there's the:
Lord's Resistance Army
National Liberation Front of Tripura
Several groups in Northern Ireland, like the Orange Volunteers.
To name a few, and that's not counting any historical Christian terrorist organizations.
It's important to understand that primarily it isn't religion or ethnicity that influence how violent a group or an individual is, but region. When there's war and political turmoil, like in some parts of the Middle East, or most of Africa, it breeds extremism. The Quran and the Bible are both equally fucked up.
and btw, catholics are as christian as any other christians.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;29674494][i](when you do away with any critical thinking regarding the evidence, you're just as bad as the pilot)[/i][/QUOTE]
How ironic
MisreADING OR NOT READING AT ALL CAN MAKE ANYONE BELIEVE TO ANYTHING. yOu CAN FIND reSONS TO KILL even in Bible, if you misread it(I guess). And I'm muslim. Not that Muslim to go to minaret and stuff, but if anyone asks about religion, I say Muslim. And when things get messy, I say Muslim prayers.
[QUOTE=DanTehMan;29676570]Your right, here is a list of war tattered, third world countries who practice Sharia law and who's law of imprisonment for blasphemy is perfectly acceptable.
1. Algeria
2. Bangladesh
3. [b]Egypt[/b]
4. [b]Iraq[/b]
5. Kuwait
6. Libya
7. Malaysia
8. Maldives
9. Morocco
10. Somalia
11. Tunisia
12. [b]United Arab Emirates[/b]
Read more: [url]http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_countries_use_Sharia_Law#ixzz1LgtBYDkF[/url][/QUOTE]
i didn't say anything about "war tattered, third world countries"
do you know what "modernity" and "post-modernity" are?
the western world as we know it is quickly slipping into post-modernity. the countries you have listed are quite firmly still modern. there is a grand difference
also, most average muslims would say sharia law is a piece of shit and goes against the qur'an
[QUOTE=Last or First;29676541][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbDu0-K9cPk[/media]
Oh no, this must mean all Christians are a threat to children and may brand them as witches
Better not let them on planes, they'll whip that kid playing with a DS
Those are witchcraft, you know
Or, maybe, extremism and uncivilized actions come, not from any specific religion, but the level of civilization in these places?
Also, thinking that all muslim women wear burkas is like thinking that all christian women are nuns.
[b]Completely different. There aren't entire countries where it is law for all women to be nuns? But there are countries where it is law for women to wear burkas.[/b]
Hey, it's better than Christianity in that regard
[img_thumb]http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7598/raybanana.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=melonmonkey;29674418](that is, if there isn't I lose faith in humanity)[/QUOTE]
I lost mine about a week after 9/11.
[editline]7th May 2011[/editline]
before this gets misconstrued - it's more the fact that we all decided "every muslim is terrorist :arghfist::downs:"
[QUOTE=pal670;29675108]It has the most references in any holy book about killing/creating war with disbelievers for the simple fact they do not believe.
Most others say to shun disbelievers etc, but the most mentioned in the Qur'an is murder.
Take it as you will, I have asked many Imams from large areas and they even said one day they wish for there to be a Jihad so they can smite disbelievers who do not bow down to the superior and only religion.[/QUOTE]
You dont know anything about islam, so dont pretend you do, here is a verse of the quran (roughly tranlsated) that teaches tolerence to non muslims
"say (to the) non-believers i will do not worship what you worship and you do not worship what i
worship, you have your faith and i have mine."
look it up
Also there is no such order to shun dislbleleivers, one of the best freinds i ever had is a Christian, and i dont have much friction with him, on the contrary we share our ideas to learn more about each other, also one of the prophets neighbors were jews, and they used to give him gifts and he accepted them.
Also when it says fight the non-believers it means fight those with the intent of destroying islam or causing harm to it, this is Jihad, it dosent mean a war against a non muslim people for the sake of gain for the muslims.
Also there are many schools of thought in islam, those "many" imams are likley to be salafi, they tend to have an unfreindly view of non muslims, also i heard about how some western imams tend to fuse politics with religion, this expalins some of the hostility some muslims have towards non-muslims
Also if you think the prophet would do this, after he liberated mecca from the pagans, he asked them "what do you think i am going to do to you, people of mecca?", and did you know what he did to them? he granted them all amnesty, and this explained why all of Mecca converted and many other muslim lands, not because they were forced to., but rather because they are fighting something that simply wants dialogue not war.
Also i have no doubt you will send me "evidence" to prove im wrong, but it i discourage myself from reading an english version of the quran, because there can be many errors in translation, or simply because verses can be made up or interpreted to send an intended message to the reader, so dont bother sending.
-Words of an ex-apostate who is again muslim, one of the former "enlightened ones" according to you.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;29676663]i didn't say anything about "war tattered, third world countries"
do you know what "modernity" and "post-modernity" are?
the western world as we know it is quickly slipping into post-modernity. the countries you have listed are quite firmly still modern. there is a grand difference
also, most average muslims would say sharia law is a piece of shit and goes against the qur'an[/QUOTE]
[quote]they're in less developed societies with shit education the majority of the time and have "leaders" calling these sorts of actions[/quote]
You're right. Replace third world with 'less developed societies' and 'war tattered' with 'shit education'. Any better?
I've really enjoyed debating with all of you, but I've got to go for a bit. Don't think this means that you have won! :P
[editline]7th May 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Random94;29676749]You dont know anything about islam, so dont pretend you do, here is a verse of the quran (roughly tranlsated) that teaches tolerence to non muslims
"say (to the) non-believers i will do not worship what you worship and you do not worship what i
worship you, have your faith and i have mine."
look it up
Also there is no such order to shun dislbleleivers, one of the best freinds i ever had is a Christian, and i dont have much friction with him, on the contrary we share our ideas to learn more about each other, also one of the prophets neighbors were jews, and they used to give him gifts and he accepted them.
Also when it says fight the non-believers it means fight those with the intent of destroying islam or causing harm to it, this is Jihad, it dosent mean a war against a non muslim people for the sake of gain for the muslims.
Also there are many schools of thought in islam, those "many" imams are likley to be salafi, they tend to have an unfreindly view of non muslims, also i heard about how some western imams tend to fuse politics with religion, this expalins some of the hostility some muslims have towards non-muslims
Also if you think the prophet would do this, after he liberated mecca from the pagans, he asked them "what do you think i am going to do to you, people of mecca?", and did you know what he did to them? he granted them all amnesty, and this explained why all of Mecca converted and many other muslim lands, not because they were forced to., but rather because they are fighting something that simply wants dialogue not war.
Also i have no doubt you will send me "evidence" to prove im wrong, but it i discourage myself from reading an english version of the quran, because there can be many errors in translation, or simply because verses can be made up or interpreted to send an intended message to the reader, so dont bother sending.
-Words of an ex-apostate who is again muslim, one of the former "enlightened ones" according to you.[/QUOTE]
That verse you quoted though, is it an earlier verse or a later verse? We could bring up the topic of abrogation and how the later, more violent, verses supercede that one.
why is it i come into a thread about two muslims dudes getting kicked off an airplane for stupid reasons, then see people quoting the hadith
that don't make no sense
[QUOTE=lavacano;29676693]I lost mine about a week after 9/11.
[/QUOTE]
Except 9/11 wasn't done by muslims alone. How can a muslim from a 3rd world poor ass country hijack a plane and crash it into america's commercial building without getting shot down or something?
I mean really, all glorious america with military force alone bigger than some other countries can't stop a civilian airplane?
"Oh look a civ plane got hijacked and is heading towards wtc, instead of shooting it down and have minimal casualties, lets let it crash and have even more casualties"
[QUOTE=DanTehMan;29676750]
That verse you quoted though, is it an earlier verse or a later verse? We could bring up the topic of abrogation and how the later, more violent, verses supercede that one.[/QUOTE]
if you actually believed the retarded "3 things you didn't know about islam" video then you need to get educated about the world
[QUOTE=DanTehMan;29676750]That verse you quoted though, is it an earlier verse or a later verse? We could bring up the topic of abrogation and how the later, more violent, verses supercede that one.[/QUOTE]
If your saying that the quran contradicts itself then all i can say is there is no use talking to you.
[QUOTE=edja007;29676820]Except 9/11 wasn't done by muslims alone. How can a muslim from a 3rd world poor ass country hijack a plane and crash it into america's commercial building without getting shot down or something?
I mean really, all glorious america with military force alone bigger than some other countries can't stop a civilian airplane?
"Oh look a civ plane got hijacked and is heading towards wtc, instead of shooting it down and have minimal casualties, lets let it crash and have even more casualties"[/QUOTE]
You sound like you have done very little research on 9/11.
[QUOTE=>VLN<;29676221]The WBC is not considered a christian church. It is condemed by both the baptist's and others, they only call themselves a baptist church to make others believe that they are part of a real church.
On an overall scale, Islam is a much, much more violent religion than Christianity, as it is today, not withstanding Catholics which is basically a separate religion.
I don't see Christian suicide bombers.[/QUOTE]
holy shit you are so wrong. catholics are a seperate religion from christianity? are you getting this info from a 19th century anti catholic book or something? what's next, the catholics actually worship saints, not god? the pope is a pawn of the devil?
islam isn't more inherently violent or whatever. have you actually looked around actual Islamic scholar's views of the religion as a whole, or are you basing this on bad things Muslims do that CNN reports?
[QUOTE=Neolithic v7;29676621][img_thumb]http://cagle.com/news/blog/BLOGgifs/Muhammad060208/trevermuhammad.gif[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
[i]Ha ha, I love that. That's so true.
Especially the part[/i] where it distinguishes it as [b]Radical[/b] Islam, you dumbass.
[QUOTE=DanTehMan;29676665]Completely different. There aren't entire countries where it is law for all women to be nuns? But there are countries where it is law for women to wear burkas.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, but they're not uncivilized because they're Muslim, they're uncivilized because they're, well, uncivilized. Islam just happens to be the religion of choice there. Islam didn't cause it to be that way, fundamentalism did. It just happened that the religion of the region is Islam.
And, again, child witches.
[QUOTE=DanTehMan;29676750]You're right. Replace third world with 'less developed societies' and 'war tattered' with 'shit education'. Any better?[/QUOTE]
less developed [relative to the post-modern west] =/= 3rd world, shit education =/= wrecked by war
those things are totally incomparable
why didn't you read what i said about modernity? google it if you need to understand the distinction.
[QUOTE=DanTehMan;29676291]No, we don't remember the crusades. We're talking about modern times in recent years, I see nearly no Christian extremists going door to door killing gays as they sleep. Yet the acts committed by extremist Muslims I read about every day.[/QUOTE]
Because the western media knows it can get more views if they talk about "radical [b]MUSLIMS[/b] hijack bus" because they know hate sells.
[QUOTE=melonmonkey;29674418]It sounds like it isn't legal, but the pilot simply outright refused to fly. I'm certain there will be a follow up. (that is, if there isn't I lose faith in humanity)[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure pilots have the right to refuse anyone to fly with them, for no reason.
[QUOTE=thisispain;29676834]if you actually believed the retarded "3 things you didn't know about islam" video then you need to get educated about the world[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.bloggersbase.com/politics-and-opinions/3-islam/[/url]
Factual quotes from the Qur'an that back up that video.
[quote=Random94]If your saying that the quran contradicts itself then all i can say is there is no use talking to you.[/quote]
If either of you had read the entire thread, you would know that I've brought up several pieces of factual information that support my claims. I also take into consideration all factual pieces of evidence against my viewpoint. Instead of going 'nahanahnahnah you've stated something I disagree with I can't hear you nahnahnah'
I want to know if you guys are justifying the pilots actions or if you just want to rant about Islam.
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;29677008]less developed [relative to the post-modern west] =/= 3rd world, shit education =/= wrecked by war
those things are totally incomparable
why didn't you read what i said about modernity? google it if you need to understand the distinction.[/QUOTE]
Minor grammatical errors aside, those things are absolutely comparable. They all have the same basic meaning of being less developed than the first world countries of the western world. You just can't seem to come up with a rebuttal other than minor grammatical errors.
[QUOTE=GhostSonic;29677073]I want to know if you guys are justifying the pilots actions or if you just want to rant about Islam.[/QUOTE]
rant about islam
I like how most people ignored this:
[QUOTE=pal670;29674881]This is sickening:
Mohammed said: “No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir (infidel).”(Hadith vol. 9:50)
No matter what you say, there is NO way you can interpret that as anything but hatred.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=GhostSonic;29677073]I want to know if you guys are justifying the pilots actions or if you just want to rant about Islam.[/QUOTE]
I began as justifying the pilot but now am just trying to defend my viewpoints. Also, I love playing devil's advocate.
[QUOTE=Uncle_Earl;29677116]I like how most people ignored this:[/QUOTE]
:ssh: there are a shitload of hadiths out there. some of them are considered junk by islamic scholars. maybe this is one of them?!?!?!?!?!?
also, "infidel" in this section likely refers to pagans and the like. it's a bit dickish, but it's not a green light for slaughtering christians and jews like some here may think
[QUOTE=Uncle_Earl;29677116]I like how most people ignored this:[/QUOTE]
I like how most people ignored this:
[quote]"And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."[/quote]
Hell, with the "they shouldn't be killed for killing infidels", it doesn't say that they shouldn't be punished at all.
Also, religious texts are generally, oh, you know, open to fucking interpretation.
And the vast motherfucking majority of Muslims aren't extremists.
Because, guess what!
Extremism means... that they're on the extreme edges of the group!
What a fucking surprise!
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