[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;46339619]Like 5 or 7 of them, and a flag.
Really worth it.[/QUOTE]
Man your posts regarding IS are just really shit lately.
Found a series of photos btw:
[IMG]http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/week102414/s_w09_57715760.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE](1 of 4) ISIS militants stand near their flag on Tilsehir hill, in Syria, near the Turkish border on October 23, 2014, at Yumurtalik village. (Bulent Kilic/AFP/Getty Images) #
[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/week102414/s_w10_57715040.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE](2 of 4) ISIS militants are caught on the edge of an air strike explosion on Tilsehir hill on October 23, 2014. (Bulent Kilic/AFP/Getty Images) #
[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/week102414/s_w11_57716678.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE](3 of 4) ISIS militants are caught in an air strike on Tilsehir hill on October 23, 2014. (Bulent Kilic/AFP/Getty Images) #
[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/week102414/s_w12_57754988.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE](4 of 4) Kurdish fighters stand by a flag of the People's Protection Units (YPG) on Tilsehir hill in Syria, near the Turkish border, after an air strike hours before, on October 24, 2014. (Bulent Kilic/AFP/Getty Images) #
[/QUOTE]
I'm sure that even though that dude had movement in him after the initial explosion, he died shortly after due to the shockwaves damaging his internal organs.
And even if he were to survive that, all the dust would make short work of his lungs.
[QUOTE=paul simon;46340386]I'm sure that even though that dude had movement in him after the initial explosion, he died shortly after due to the shockwaves damaging his internal organs.
And even if he were to survive that, all the dust would make short work of his lungs.[/QUOTE]
I don't know how you can come to either of those conclusions. There are plenty of people who have survived large explosions before. If he didn't get hit by some flying object at high speed, it's not really possibly to guess what happened to him.
yeah mate you don't need to be a fucking scientist to understand shockwaves and the likelihood that those two chumps had a good chance of having their light switches flipped off after that
Even if they managed to survived they will probably be fucked up for the rest of their lives. And honestly who cares if they survived anyway? Let's hope they're crippled
[QUOTE=En-Guage;46340414]yeah mate you don't need to be a fucking scientist to understand shockwaves and the likelihood that those two chumps had their "light switches" flipped off after that
Even if they managed to survived they will probably be fucked up for the rest of their lives. And honestly who cares if they survived anyway? [b]Let's hope they're crippled[/b][/QUOTE]
Gross
[QUOTE=paul simon;46340386]I'm willing to bet that even though that dude had movement in him after the explosion, he died shortly of internal organ failure.
And even if he were to survive that, all the dust would make short work of his lungs.[/QUOTE]
At that distance the blast would (at least) rupture their eardrums, and cause minor internal bleeding, but I'm 90% sure that some of that frag caught him. I've seen guys survive direct hits and run away, all from adrenaline, only to slow down and collapse a few minutes later. I wouldn't be surprised if he's dead by now from that strike. And then again I wouldn't be surprised if he lived with something severely wrong with him.
[QUOTE=Explosions;46340394]I don't know how you can come to either of those conclusions. There are plenty of people who have survived large explosions before. If he didn't get hit by some flying object at high speed, it's not really possibly to guess what happened to him.[/QUOTE]
I just feel the chances weren't exactly in his favor here. They're standing on this enormous mound of gravel, dirt and rocks. There's plenty of shrapnel that could've hit him, the dirt makes for terrible dust to breathe in (he gets consumed by the dust cloud), and there wasn't much to protect him from the shockwave either.
Muscles are tough. They can take it. The adrenaline lets him run away, but he might not have survived for more than a couple of minutes afterwards.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];46339739']one bomb or a good sniper, maybe where that camera was sitting, could have done a decent job or at least kept them off the hill though?[/QUOTE]
How much do you think a trained Sniper costs? They get paid at least 60,000$ a year in salary alone. That't not including the millions of dollars spent for training and other expenses.
[QUOTE=Explosions;46340394]I don't know how you can come to either of those conclusions. There are plenty of people who have survived large explosions before. If he didn't get hit by some flying object at high speed, it's not really possibly to guess what happened to him.[/QUOTE]
He might have survived but there's no doubt he has internal organ damage from the overpressure. You can't stand next to an explosion that large without receiving a tremendous amount of internal shock.
Generally in those circumstances your ears drums burst, most of the capillaries in your nasal cavities rupture, you get contusions on your lungs, generally get an air embolism (ie: air bubbles in your bloodstream). Survivable maybe but it's doubtful if you don't get immediate medical treatment.
Well, you can argue if he survived the first two bombs, but seeing as the last bomb was just about a direct hit I'm not thinking he's alive now...
[QUOTE=l33tkill;46340423]At that distance the blast would (at least) rupture their eardrums, and cause minor internal bleeding, but I'm 90% sure that some of that frag caught him. I've seen guys survive direct hits and run away, all from adrenaline, only to slow down and collapse a few minutes later. I wouldn't be surprised if he's dead by now from that strike. And then again I wouldn't be surprised if he lived with something severely wrong with him.[/QUOTE]
Even if he did, he probably be killed, judging by the kurds taking over the hill
[QUOTE=Explosions;46340419]Gross[/QUOTE]
Why? These guys have proved they're not human.
Why would I feel bad for them? I do have empathy for opposing forces and the casualties they both have to endure in war, but I have zero empathy for these guys after watching enough of their shit on liveleak.
[QUOTE=En-Guage;46340414]Even if they managed to survived they will probably be fucked up for the rest of their lives. And honestly who cares if they survived anyway? Let's hope they're crippled[/QUOTE]
I know it's kinda weird to reply twice to the same post, but this really got to me. Do you also wish that all German WWII vets would be crippled? It's the same logic - this soldier fights for a terrifying ideology and regime, so he deserves to be brutalized dehumanized. It's disgusting.
I don't think germans in WW2 had as much choice as these people do. Not a good comparison at all. They made their choice.
thanks for commenting though because I've been half asleep for the last 40 minutes and that woke me up somehow. Now I can go back to work.
[QUOTE=En-Guage;46340698]I don't think germans in WW2 had as much choice as these people do. Not a good comparison at all. They made their choice.[/QUOTE]
Lol so you know the exact situation of that guy on the hillside? Tell me more, and tell me how you know he "had a choice."
Why? I don't have to justify myself
[QUOTE=En-Guage;46340715]Why? I don't have to justify myself[/QUOTE]
Every German soldier should have been tortured and had their legs chopped off because they were all evil scumbags and deserved it. Disagree? I don't have to justify myself.
Now you're just confusing me man
Clearly you are more upset about this than me
[QUOTE=En-Guage;46340738]Now you're just confusing me man
Clearly you are more upset about this than me[/QUOTE]
It's pretty upsetting to see people saying disgusting things about other human beings just because they're on the other side of an ideology or a battle.
Explosions, how I see it is that he wishes horrible things to happen to members of a terrorist organization that does gruesome things that no true human should ever do to others.
I'd say it's a fairly natural impulse, kind of like "What goes around comes around."
[QUOTE=Matt2468rv;46340754]Explosions, how I see it is that he wishes horrible things to happen to members of a terrorist organization that does gruesome things that no true human should ever do to others.
I'd say it's a fairly natural impulse, kind of like "What goes around comes around."[/QUOTE]
Well he shouldn't be subscribing to middle-school morality like that. And it suggests that he should equally hate German WWII vets.
Thanks matt
Yeah basically, seeing videos of ISIS members beating, torturing and killing unarmed people leaves you with a sour taste in your mouth. And don't preach shit to me about ideology, these people [B]made their choice[/B], they chose to join up, and they chose to kill innocent men women and children
I don't give a fuck about their ideology, they could have chosen not massacre people but they did anyway
And you explosions, shouldn't force your fucking opinion on everyone like you're 100% all the fucking time
I have an opinion, you don't like it, so deal with it. Doesn't mean I'm wrong and you're right.
[QUOTE=Explosions;46340759]Well he shouldn't be subscribing to middle-school morality like that. And it suggests that he should equally hate German WWII vets.[/QUOTE]
It was their choice to join ISIS, it's not like random citizens were conscripted.
Yknow scratch that, below poster makes a better argument.
[QUOTE=En-Guage;46340768]Thanks matt
Yeah basically, seeing videos of ISIS members beating, torturing and killing unarmed people leaves you with a sour taste in your mouth. And don't preach shit to me about ideology, these people [B]made their choice[/B], they chose to join up, and they chose to kill innocent men women and children
I don't give a fuck about their ideology, they could have chosen not massacre people but they did anyway
And you explosions, shouldn't force your fucking opinion on everyone like you're 100% all the fucking time
I have an opinion, you don't like it, so deal with it. Doesn't mean I'm wrong and you're right.[/QUOTE]
I think the fundamental mistake here that you're making which Explosions is arguing against without saying is that your implication is they had a choice. If a swarm of IS militants comes into your village and your choices are to die or join them, it's easy to say you'd choose death over it, but it's a lot harder in practice. IS is certainly full of people who choose to do evil for the sake of evil, but, as with the Nazis, there are also conscripts. People forced by threat to join them. People who don't have access to any knowledge that we do of IS. If a group of men with guns comes into your village which has been bombed out, and you don't know who by, and they tell you they're fighting for freedom, do you know right away they're terrorists? No, you don't. That isn't to say that man was innocent. He most likely wasn't. Nobody who's in IS is totally innocent but no one is. To say he deserves to be crippled is to say the same is true of any soldier who's ever fought on the wrong side, regardless of the reasons they fought.
[QUOTE=En-Guage;46340768]Thanks matt
Yeah basically, seeing videos of ISIS members beating, torturing and killing unarmed people leaves you with a sour taste in your mouth. And don't preach shit to me about ideology, these people [B]made their choice[/B], they chose to join up, and they chose to kill innocent men women and children
I don't give a fuck about their ideology, they could have chosen not massacre people but they did anyway[/quote]
I'm still waiting to hear how you figured all this out. Did you interview those guys on the hill and get their reasons for joining the IS and a history of their actions in it?
[quote]And you explosions, shouldn't force your fucking opinion on everyone like you're 100% all the fucking time
I have an opinion, you don't like it, so deal with it. Doesn't mean I'm wrong and you're right.[/QUOTE]
I'm not forcing anything on anyone lol I can't stop you from thinking the way you do. I just think it's unhealthy to dehumanize people and think that they should be crippled because they're on the other team.
Also I happen to be right 100% of the time as well, so there's that.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;46339619]Like 5 or 7 of them, and a flag.
Really worth it.[/QUOTE]
You're clutching at straws when you're judging the worth of a military action or campaign by the relative cost of munitions vs targets.
Also to say they chose to kill women and children is to say all American combatants do the same. We've killed more innocents over the course of all our wars than most anyone else. That man might've been a field medic. He might've been a new recruit who's never killed anyone. He might be a man who's there because one of our attacks killed his family. This is the problem with the conflicts of today, no one is innocent. We don't have innocent bystanders anymore. Anyone who's in our sights is a terrorist. We kill entire villages, destroy entire complexes. This is why we can't win a war on terror with conventional tactics. War on a concept cannot be won. There will always be terrorists. People thought this would be over when we killed Al Qaeda leadership. Before that people thought the shaping of Israel would end conflict there. For the last 50 or so years every war has been misguided and based on attacking a concept which really just radicalizes more combatants. Instead of bombing the shit out of people, we need to understand why it is that we are so hated by our enemies and why we hate them so much. If you lived in a piece of shit village that was razed by soldiers, your family raped, beaten, or murdered, what would you do? Curl up and be okay with it because it was America who did it?
There is a difference between collateral damage and and deliberately recorded, systematic massacre but I understand what you're saying
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