IMF $1bn Ukraine tranche postponed after trade blockade - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Whoaly;51990994]If these territories are more than 60% ethnic Russian there is a compelling argument (at least for nationalists like me) that they are not "rightfully" belonging to anyone other than Russia. [/QUOTE] OK then, let's give all the immigrant-majority segments of England to their native countries! Oh wait, let's not, because that idea is idiotic.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;51995695]the only reason why "expance" grown into reunion with Crimea is to maintain Black Sea Fleet's presence instead of NATO. It's the same reason why Russia will never accept DNR\LNR as part of Russia even if they'd wish for it cincerely. Expansion was not a goal, but rather a reaction, a consequence. With Buffer Zone reestablished (Ukraine not joing EU/NATO any time soon) and influence in Syria, there is no need for a new drastical measures.[/QUOTE] That's right folks, don't you DARE decide to join the EU or NATO or we'll take part of your country. Such is the consequence of daring to go against the will of Russia

[QUOTE=karimatrix;51995695]the only reason why "expance" grown into reunion with Crimea is to maintain Black Sea Fleet's presence instead of NATO. It's the same reason why Russia will never accept DNR\LNR as part of Russia even if they'd wish for it cincerely. Expansion was not a goal, but rather a reaction, a consequence. With Buffer Zone reestablished (Ukraine not joing EU/NATO any time soon) and influence in Syria, there is no need for a new drastical measures.[/QUOTE] yes there is. first it's a part of the Caucasus, then Ukraine, next it'll be some other sliver of land (maybe Estonia) Russia always tries to expand given the opportunity - its just that Russia would probably destroy itself again in the process of invading and annexing the whole of Ukraine somehow Ukraine joining the European union is an existential threat to Russia, that's the kind of deluded shit you can expect from the moskali

[QUOTE=PaChIrA;51995831]That's right folks, don't you DARE decide to join the EU or NATO or we'll take part of your country. Such is the consequence of daring to go against the will of Russia[/QUOTE] You can get as emotional about it as you want but the fact is, such things as national interests and spheres of influence exist for all countries and sometimes said countries protect them in a surprise matter. You as citizen of US should know all about it's rich history of interference in foreign nations. [editline]22nd March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;51995889]yes there is. first it's a part of the Caucasus, then Ukraine, next it'll be some other sliver of land (maybe Estonia) Russia always tries to expand given the opportunity - its just that Russia would probably destroy itself again in the process of invading and annexing the whole of Ukraine somehow Ukraine joining the European union is an existential threat to Russia, that's the kind of deluded shit you can expect from the moskali[/QUOTE] Thats alot of fear mongering and lack of understanding geo-politics pal.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51995889]yes there is. first it's a part of the Caucasus, then Ukraine, next it'll be some other sliver of land (maybe Estonia) Russia always tries to expand given the opportunity - its just that Russia would probably destroy itself again in the process of invading and annexing the whole of Ukraine somehow Ukraine joining the European union is an existential threat to Russia, that's the kind of deluded shit you can expect from the moskali[/QUOTE] Are you serious or is this some kind of not very smart sarcasm? I agree that our government isn't the brightest one but even they would not start conquering every piece of land "just for the lulz".

[QUOTE=karimatrix;51995999]Thats alot of fear mongering and lack of understanding geo-politics pal.[/QUOTE] nevermind the fact there's considerable evidence of Russian interference in pretty much everything right now it's not fear-mongering when there's evidence sitting out in the open - I mean the occupation and sham referendum in crimea was pretty obvious enough [QUOTE=maniacykt;51996029]I agree that our government isn't the brightest one but even they would not start conquering every piece of land "just for the lulz".[/QUOTE] you'd be surprised given that expansion (usually in order to secure land either for a buffer or to extract rent from) has been a persistent feature of the Russian state for centuries at this point Russia is still full of a whole bunch of nations fighting for independence from Moscow

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51996033]you'd be surprised given that expansion (usually in order to secure land either for a buffer or to extract rent from) has been a persistent feature of the Russian state for centuries at this point[/QUOTE] Gee, I wonder why then Russia has given quite a big piece of land to China ([U]337 square kilometers of land[/U] to be exact) in 2005. Must be an elaborate plan for a future land grab!

[QUOTE=maniacykt;51996029]Are you serious or is this some kind of not very smart sarcasm? I agree that our government isn't the brightest one but even they would not start conquering every piece of land "just for the lulz".[/QUOTE] Why do you even bother replying to that ignorant racist stuff.

[QUOTE=antianan;51996069]Why do you even bother replying to that ignorant racist stuff.[/QUOTE] Sorry about that. Was bored.

[QUOTE=karimatrix;51995999]You can get as emotional about it as you want but the fact is, such things as national interests and spheres of influence exist for all countries and sometimes said countries protect them in a surprise matter. You as citizen of US should know all about it's rich history of interference in foreign nations.[/QUOTE] Oh? I didn't realize we annexed any of our neighbors recently. I also didn't realize we annexed Iraq and Afghanistan as well. We're doing the same thing you guys are doing in Syria, which I find to be perfectly fine. I am glad the Russians are in Syria with us, but annexing a part of Ukraine is something I vehemently disagree with.

Also karimatrix can you please stop writing conjunction "so" as "soo". There is no extra "o" letter at the end and this triggers my grammar gland. :s: Thank you.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51996033] Russia is still full of a whole bunch of nations fighting for independence from Moscow[/QUOTE] Wait, you are saying that some regions of Russia want to be independent of it? Well I have never laughted so hard if that's what you mean.

[QUOTE=Megalan;51996348]Wait, you are saying that some regions of Russia want to be independent of it? Well I have never laughted so hard if that's what you mean.[/QUOTE] I mean sure, people as a whole is clearly unhappy with corruption and rising prices but nobody wants to dissolve.

[QUOTE=Megalan;51996348]Wait, you are saying that some regions of Russia want to be independent of it? Well I have never laughted so hard if that's what you mean.[/QUOTE] well yeah there's the peoples in the Caucasus, the Tuvans, the Yakuts, and other movements here and there in Siberia russia is a multiethnic federation, not a homogeneous nation plus ukraine, belarus, the baltic states, and moldova only acheived independence in the past 30 years - that's not that long ago. there are quite a lot of people alive today in many former soviet republics who remember living under moscovite rule and whose lands are considered to be "ours" by the moskali in some capacity (whenever as a direct possession or a satellite or a buffer)

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51996782]well yeah there's the peoples in the Caucasus, the Tuvans, the Yakuts, and other movements here and there in Siberia russia is a multiethnic federation, not a homogeneous nation[/QUOTE] All I can say is I recommend you to not talk about stuff you obviously know nothing about.

[QUOTE=Megalan;51997096]All I can say is I recommend you to not talk about stuff you obviously know nothing about.[/QUOTE] i'm pretty sure there's been multiple attacks and wars in the Caucasus over the issue chechnya has been trying to gain independence for years now, and dagestan is full of separatist violence it's also exceptionally obvious to even the casual observer that russia isn't a homogeneous nation

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51997117]i'm pretty sure there's been multiple attacks and wars in the Caucasus over the issue chechnya has been trying to gain independence for years now, and dagestan is full of separatist violence it's also exceptionally obvious to even the casual observer that russia isn't a homogeneous nation[/QUOTE] :speechless: Read wikipedia article about stuff you are talking about before posting, ok? Your information is outdated as fuck. There was literally 0 wars in the Caucasus involving any parts of Russia in the last 16 years. (excluding South Ossetia conflict since this not associated with Russian territory in any way) Chechnya? Independence? Putin basically pumps it with endless flow of money and Kadyrov (and Chechnya as a whole) likes it. Until this is changed they don't have any reason to leave Russia and they never talked about that as of now. Multi-ethnic nation is not the same as "multiple ethnic groups occupied by [B]BIG BAD RUSSIANS[/B]". The only reason why you can think about it that way is your ignorance.

[QUOTE=Megalan;51997177]:speechless: Read wikipedia article about stuff you are talking about before posting, ok? Your information is outdated as fuck. There was literally 0 wars in the Caucasus involving any parts of Russia in the last 16 years. (excluding South Ossetia conflict since this not associated with Russian territory in any way)[/quote] there's still conflict there, not to mention that 16 years isn't that long a time [quote]Chechnya? Independence? Putin basically pumps it with endless flow of money and Kadyrov (and Chechnya as a whole) likes it. Until this is changed they don't have any reason to leave Russia and they never talked about that as of now.[/quote] what about all the violence that's still ongoing there? i mean the war is over, but there's still some fighting happening (some of which involves ISIS) [quote]Multi-ethnic nation is not the same as "multiple ethnic groups occupied by [B]BIG BAD RUSSIANS[/B]". The only reason why you can think about it that way is your ignorance.[/QUOTE] i don't think the russians are bad, i just think the government in moscow is terrible and gets up to all sorts of stupid bullshit (like annexing parts of ukraine lately)

Oh shit, I didn't know that our region had "movement".

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51997226]there's still conflict there, not to mention that 16 years isn't that long a time what about all the violence that's still ongoing there? i mean the war is over, but there's still some fighting happening (some of which involves ISIS) i don't think the russians are bad, i just think the government in moscow is terrible and gets up to all sorts of stupid bullshit (like annexing parts of ukraine lately)[/QUOTE] You're misinformed. Conflicts may or may not start if the Russian government runs out of money for throwing into problematic regions, but there's nothing going on in Chechnya, and definitely not in Siberia, lmao. Siberians are just normal Russians, exactly like the ones that live in Moscow

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;51997363]You're misinformed. Conflicts may or may not start if the Russian government runs out of money for throwing into problematic regions, but there's nothing going on in Chechnya, and definitely not in Siberia, lmao. Siberians are just normal Russians, exactly like the ones that live in Moscow[/QUOTE] i was saying there are peoples there who want to be independent in siberia, not that they're actually out and fighting unlike in say the Caucasus also there's still some low-level fighting in the Caucasus, just not on the same scale as in the past

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51997380]also there's still some low-level fighting in the Caucasus, just not on the same scale as in the past[/QUOTE] yeah with islamic terrorists who do not represent the rest of chechnya/the caucasus.

[QUOTE=Araknid;51998959]yeah with islamic terrorists who do not represent the rest of chechnya/the caucasus.[/QUOTE] It turns out destabilizing a country and killing off nationalists gave salafists more influence on people, what a surprise. There's plenty of Chechens who want independence, some turn to islamic extremism. [QUOTE=Laserbeams;51997363]You're misinformed. Conflicts may or may not start if the Russian government runs out of money for throwing into problematic regions, but there's nothing going on in Chechnya, and definitely not in Siberia, lmao. Siberians are just normal Russians, exactly like the ones that live in Moscow[/QUOTE] Saying that there's nothing going on in Chechnya is about as misinformed considering there were 202 people killed and 85 wounded in 2016 from the insurgency.

[QUOTE=Ghost656;51999555] Saying that there's nothing going on in Chechnya is about as misinformed considering there were 202 people killed and 85 wounded in 2016 from the insurgency.[/QUOTE] Well Detroit alone had 302 homicides in 2016. Does this makes Detroit a site of insurgency too?

[QUOTE=maniacykt;51999651]Well Detroit alone had 302 homicides in 2016. Does this makes Detroit a site of insurgency too?[/QUOTE] Did you just compare crime statistics to casualties caused from an ongoing insurgency?

[QUOTE=Ghost656;51999555]It turns out destabilizing a country and killing off nationalists gave salafists more influence on people, what a surprise. There's plenty of Chechens who want independence, some turn to islamic extremism.[/quote] Chechnya won independence then its army and government got overthrown and replace by militias from the terrorist IIB's/Caucasus Emirate. Freedom and independence is obviously the ideal - Russia shouldn't have had the 1st Chechen war. But the 2nd Chechen war was justified. If the choice between occupation+huge investment from Russia or occupation+islamic state should be an easy one. Had Russia not invaded Chechnya a second time would have remained a rogue state run by Islamic extremists - maybe of the IIB people went on to fight for ISIS. The guy who currently runs Chechnya (Kadyrov) was fighting for Chechen independence in the first war and then fought alongside the Russians against the terrorists in the second war, he and many other Chechens have picked their side - Russia might be corrupt and bloated but its better than terrorists. The IIBs/Caucasus Emirate/now ISIS are the people Russia is fighting in Chechnya. Freedom and independence is ideal but its not on the table, if they go independent they'll get invaded by terrorists again.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51999784]Chechnya won independence then its army and government got overthrown and replace by militias from the terrorist IIB's/Caucasus Emirate. Freedom and independence is obviously the ideal - Russia shouldn't have had the 1st Chechen war. But the 2nd Chechen war was justified. If the choice between occupation+huge investment from Russia or occupation+islamic state should be an easy one. Had Russia not invaded Chechnya a second time would have remained a rogue state run by Islamic extremists - maybe of the IIB people went on to fight for ISIS. The guy who currently runs Chechnya (Kadyrov) was fighting for Chechen independence in the first war and then fought alongside the Russians against the terrorists in the second war, he and many other Chechens have picked their side - Russia might be corrupt and bloated but its better than terrorists. The IIBs/Caucasus Emirate/now ISIS are the people Russia is fighting in Chechnya. Freedom and independence is ideal but its not on the table, if they go independent they'll get invaded by terrorists again.[/QUOTE] I was talking about the first Chechen war, if Russia didn't invade it could have been a secular republic. And that's better than a Caucasus Emirate or that clown Kadyrov with his human rights abuses.

[QUOTE=Ghost656;51999817]I was talking about the first Chechen war, if Russia didn't invade it could have been a secular republic. And that's better than a Caucasus Emirate or that clown Kadyrov with his human rights abuses.[/QUOTE] That's a huge assumption to simply expect secucal republic of such geography as Chechnya to be "better than" current state. History has alot of examples where secular statehood failed despite initial apraisal. Like Kosovo. Soo your expectations are rather inconclusive. Not to mention that Chechens themself are fucking praying on for Putin.