[QUOTE=Tidusete;52734790]Why is everyone so upset with the spanish government when all it's doing is dismantling an illegal referendum, which was outlawed because our democratically voted in constitution explicitly forbids such a procedure, while giving ways to modify the constitution to suit future needs, as Coment pointed out?
In a country based in the rule of law, you can't just say "well, screw the supreme piece of legislation that binds and rules our nation, I'm gonna have it my own way".
You try to convince the rest of the population that this is on their best interests, with more or less success, like Podemos is doing.
Thing is, particularistic nationalisms such as the Catalonian and Vasque ones (albeit with differences) are extremely focused on their ethnic voters pool, for lack of a better term, and not without reason, since that's the whole point of their existence, and as such disregard the rest of the electorate in their rhetoric, something for which they pay dearly in terms of the popularity of their views in the rest of Spain.
Consequently, it will take them a long time before Spain accepts their views and is willing to change the constitution to fit their demands (and mind you, that happens in a completely democratic fashion by voting parties favorable to that proposition, or alternatively by the members of said parties changing their views on the matter as a result of being pressured by their voters to do that).[/QUOTE]
Because the same thing happens in other countries without police brutality. The Quebec referendums were unconstitutional, but they went on anyway and no one got hurt.
By the way, Rajoy needs the vasque nationalists to have his budget plan go forwards.
Fucking wannabe imperialists, you can't force people to be on your side.
Mariano Rajoy is scum. I hope that for his own good and for the good of all of us he resigns, if possible sometime this coming week.
[video]https://youtu.be/CYr6c3haCcs[/video]
this happened in my town
[QUOTE=DaWhatTheFox;52735857]Mariano Rajoy is scum. I hope that for his own good and for the good of all of us he resigns, if possible sometime this coming week.[/QUOTE]
He is a cockroach who has been scarvenging, lying and blaming his entire life. Pedro Sánchez is a mere mannequin, Pablo Iglesias is controlled disidency incarnate, and Albert Rivera is an used car salesman.
By the way, massive protest IN MADRID supporting Catalunya. And over here in Galicia, quite large support protests as well.
Come on, how come we haven't had a general strike since 2012?
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;52735912]He is a cockroach who has been scarvenging, lying and blaming his entire life. Pedro Sánchez is a mere mannequin, Pablo Iglesias is [B]controlled disidency incarnate[/B], and Albert Rivera is an used car salesman.
By the way, massive protest IN MADRID supporting Catalunya. And over here in Galicia, quite large support protests as well.
Come on, how come we haven't had a general strike since 2012?[/QUOTE]
????
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;52735912]He is a cockroach who has been scarvenging, lying and blaming his entire life. Pedro Sánchez is a [B]mere mannequin[/B], Pablo Iglesias is controlled disidency incarnate, and Albert Rivera is [B]an used car salesman[/B].
By the way, massive protest IN MADRID supporting Catalunya. And over here in Galicia, quite large support protests as well.
Come on, how come we haven't had a general strike since 2012?[/QUOTE]
I guess does insults sound meaner in spanish than english.
Well, not quite, Gaspar Llamazares is controlled disidence incarnate. Iglesias (and Podemos) pretty much capitalized on them "being" 15M, and people left the streets. And there is plenty of protesting left to do, speaking on the congress doesn't make stuff visible.
And I wouldn't really call them insults. More like... impotence. Sánchez doesn't really do anything but support Rajoy while claiming to be his opponent, and Rivera has been saying he won't tolerate corruption while more and more "insolated cases" pile, and he keeps supporting Rajoy.
I'm reading on Twitter that the amount of wounded now ascends to more of 700. It is true?
[B]EDIT:[/B] YES
[media][URL]https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/914558632309739521[/URL][/media]
Also:
[media][URL]https://twitter.com/eldiarioes/status/914557753196257281[/URL][/media]
[quote]We have been an example to the world[/quote]
[I]The Absolute Madman
[/I]
I hope I don't wake up tomorrow and find that a second civil war started.
[QUOTE=Maestro Fenix;52736002]I'm reading on Twitter that the amount of wounded now ascends to more of 700. It is true?
[B]EDIT:[/B] YES
[url]https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/914558632309739521[/url]
Also:
[url]https://twitter.com/eldiarioes/status/914557753196257281[/url]
[I]The Absolute Madman[/I]
I hope I don't wake up tomorrow and find that a second civil war started.[/QUOTE]
I doubt it will go that far, but when this is done the desire for independence will be much stronger than it was before.
[URL="http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/01/spanish-pm-says-there-was-no-referendum-in-catalonia-after-police-violence-injures-761-6969092/"]Rajoy is denying that a referendum took place today apparently[/URL]
[media]https://twitter.com/MauriceSchleepe/status/914561741215928320[/media]
Firemen getting beat up by the police, after forming chains to protect voters
By the way, Rajoy is no stranger to violence. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIkkoCcEdb8]Here is him hitting his son for making a criticism, in public media.[/url]
This Rajoy guy sounds like a total asshole.
Gee Spain sure looks like a first world / developed country to me!
/s
This is horrible. Really horrible. Really puts the Scottish independence stuff into perspective, and how nicely it was handled in comparison to this barbaric fuckfest.
Is there an equivalent of 'Taiwan #1' for this whole mess?
[url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41463719[/url]
[quote]Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont says the region has won the right to statehood following Sunday's contentious referendum which was marred by violence.
He said the door had been opened to a unilateral declaration of independence.
"With this day of hope and suffering, the citizens of Catalonia have won the right to an independent state in the form a republic," Mr Puigdemont said in a televised address flanked by other senior Catalan leaders.
"My government, in the next few days will send the results of today's vote to the Catalan parliament, where the sovereignty of our people lies, so that it can act in accordance with the law of the referendum."
He said the European Union could no longer "continue to look the other way".[/quote]
[QUOTE=Tamschi;52731874]They'd (presumably) still be in the EU, so at least in terms of the economy there wouldn't be nearly as much friction as with the UK.[/QUOTE]
Multiple high ranking EU officials stated that if Catalonia were to become independent, they'd have to leave the EU.
I mean that makes sense, it'd be a new country with a new constitution etc.
And given that Spain would veto their application, they'd remain outside indefintely. Not to mention that the application process also takes years, as with any other country.
So yeah, you can't have one without the other, and Catalonians have to take this into account.
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;52736162]By the way, Rajoy is no stranger to violence. [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIkkoCcEdb8"]Here is him hitting his son for making a criticism, in public media.[/URL][/QUOTE]
a small non-damaging "colleja" is a normal thing in spain
repugnante
A lot of people on the spanish part of twitter don't use hash tags that much so you need to actually dig into the word "catalonia" on twitter, you get some grim shit but you get a lot of the reality of what's going on.
[media]https://twitter.com/dfriedman33/status/914538181005135875[/media]
I have no idea what instructions were given to those policemen but there is no excuse for this sort of behavior.
[QUOTE=Orkel;52736289][url]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41463719[/url][/QUOTE]
[quote]He said the European Union could no longer "continue to look the other way".[/quote]
I get the feeling that the EU is going to let them down massively in that regard.
[QUOTE=Rockeiro123;52736387]A lot of people on the spanish part of twitter don't use hash tags that much so you need to actually dig into the word "catalonia" on twitter, you get some grim shit but you get a lot of the reality of what's going on.
[media]https://twitter.com/dfriedman33/status/914538181005135875[/media]
I have no idea what instructions were given to those policemen but there is no excuse for this sort of behavior.[/QUOTE]
The head of the police remains francoist, and it is not unusual to find fascist symbology among the policemen.
Spanish nationalism is very agressive towards anything it perceives as different.
[QUOTE=Eriorguez;52736465]The head of the police remains francoist, and it is not unusual to find fascist symbology among the policemen.
Spanish nationalism is very agressive towards anything it perceives as different.[/QUOTE]
Hell, the vicepresident is the daughter of a francoist military general.
[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52735382]How the fuck does IRAQ have a much better and respectful referendum whilst in the midst of armed conflict and who's would be independent people in question are hated by surrounding governments? What the shit Spain?[/QUOTE]
Because Iraqi Kurdistan is already autonomous, and has its own police force AND army. The two cases are hardly comparable.
[QUOTE=Instant Mix;52736240]Gee Spain sure looks like a first world / developed country to me!
/s
This is horrible. Really horrible. Really puts the Scottish independence stuff into perspective, and how nicely it was handled in comparison to this barbaric fuckfest.[/QUOTE]
You can write it without the sarcasm, since he got elected and made cancel our rights we have pretty much descended into a 2nd world country, almost next to Russia.
The fanaticism is so total that a lot of people who doesn't look up the news at internet seriously believe the police actuation was actually fine "because the other side were throwing rocks as well", "faking up the wounds and using children and the elderly as human shields" as well as defending the police "since they were making a coup d'etat".
And now seems that aside of the 840 wounded, there are ( unconfirmed ) reports of women being sexually assaulted by the anti riot police ( mostly breast foundling while being arrested/dragged away, as well ripping out skirts, trousers and t-shirts ). While is going to take some time to confirm it, it wouldn't be the first time if it turns out true, as it happened a couple of times during the 15M and other manifestations.
Pretty much we made the headlines on all the newspapers around the world, and we are extraordinary ashamed of our country. And the worse is that this guy will be ( again ) re-elected.
[QUOTE=Maestro Fenix;52737981]You can write it without the sarcasm, since he got elected and made cancel our rights we have pretty much descended into a 2nd world country, almost next to Russia.
The fanaticism is so total that a lot of people who doesn't look up the news at internet seriously believe the police actuation was actually fine "because the other side were throwing rocks as well", "faking up the wounds and using children and the elderly as human shields" as well as defending the police "since they were making a coup d'etat".
And now seems that aside of the 840 wounded, there are ( unconfirmed ) reports of women being sexually assaulted by the anti riot police ( mostly breast foundling while being arrested/dragged away, as well ripping out skirts, trousers and t-shirts ). While is going to take some time to confirm it, it wouldn't be the first time if it turns out true, as it happened a couple of times during the 15M and other manifestations.
Pretty much we made the headlines on all the newspapers around the world, and we are extraordinary ashamed of our country. And the worse is that this guy will be ( again ) re-elected.[/QUOTE]
Anyone that thinks the spanish government isn't completely at fault here is an idiot.
[QUOTE=Kecske;52737901]Because Iraqi Kurdistan is already autonomous, and has its own police force AND army. The two cases are hardly comparable.[/QUOTE]
And to be fair, I'm not sure you can say that Iraq has had a more respectful referendum. The Iraqi government has been calling it illegitimate every step of the way and, with the surrounding nations, has taken steps to try and bully the Kurds back into line (Threatening economic sanctions, blocking flights to Kurdistan, etc)
The fact that the Kurds have their own armed forces and police is probably why Iraq didn't do what the Spanish government has done to Catalonia, because doing so would undoubtedly have ignited a civil war.
[QUOTE=eirexe;52736381]a small non-damaging "colleja" is a normal thing in spain[/QUOTE]
That's pretty shitty
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