[QUOTE=eirexe;52736381]a small non-damaging "colleja" is a normal thing in spain[/QUOTE]
It is, but I can tell you that when it happens 24/7 it can fuck you up. I certainly don't trust my parents or want to go back to live in Spain, due to the mentality people have regarding shit like this.
[QUOTE=Maximo13;52738353]It is, but I can tell you that when it happens 24/7 it can fuck you up. I certainly don't trust my parents or want to go back to live in Spain, due to the mentality people have regarding shit like this.[/QUOTE]
No one does it 24/7.
[QUOTE=elowin;52738350]That's pretty shitty[/QUOTE]
It isn't though, it's just a non-violent thing, it's different from a hit thats meant to hurt, collejas don't hurt.
[QUOTE=Wazbat;52735156]
How so?[/QUOTE]
Oh you know, just the [I]regular things[/I] going on in a [I] totally functioning democracy[/I] like this:
[QUOTE=Orkel;52736139][media]https://twitter.com/MauriceSchleepe/status/914561741215928320[/media]
Firemen getting beat up by the police, after forming chains to protect voters[/QUOTE]
have you even paid attention to your country for the last few years or have you just been on an extended siesta?
Spain's economy is trash, your government is all but officially named a fascist hellhole, and has been a massive cunt for centuries about the Strait of Gibraltar, Portugal, etc.
Like do you realise just how fucked up it is that the [I]fire department[/I] is having to protect people who want to exercise a [I]basic democratic right[/I] from the fucking [I]police[/I] of all things?
[QUOTE=eirexe;52738500]No one does it 24/7.
It isn't though, it's just a non-violent thing, it's different from a hit thats meant to hurt, collejas don't hurt.[/QUOTE]
dude it's fucked. you think it's okay because you've been in that culture since birth.
I wouldn't want to get gently slapped on the face and I don't think it's quite a stretch to say that most people wouldn't either.
[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;52739516]Oh you know, just the [I]regular things[/I] going on in a [I] totally functioning democracy[/I] like this:
have you even paid attention to your country for the last few years or have you just been on an extended siesta?
Spain's economy is trash, your government is all but officially named a fascist hellhole, and has been a massive cunt for centuries about the Strait of Gibraltar, Portugal, etc.
Like do you realise just how fucked up it is that the [I]fire department[/I] is having to protect people who want to exercise a [I]basic democratic right[/I] from the fucking [I]police[/I] of all things?[/QUOTE]
But if California declares independence from the United States of America the US army would occupy it. And no one would say shit but say "the US is right".
You know, a constitution is not just a piece of paper, is an agreement of populations, and those arfe made to not to be vulnerable. And you know what happened to a certain country after their constitution was altered by a normal law?
Fascist period of Italy.
[QUOTE=MarcusSmith;52739622]But if California declares independence from the United States of America the US army would occupy it. And no one would say shit but say "the US is right".
You know, a constitution is not just a piece of paper, is an agreement of populations, and those arfe made to not to be vulnerable. And you know what happened to a certain country after their constitution was altered by a normal law?
Fascist period of Italy.[/QUOTE]
Really nice red-baiting you've got going on here but I'll bite. Guess the American Revolutionary War, Bosnian War, Belgian Revolution, Eighty Years' War, Peninsular War(Irony to say the least), any war for independence through-out history, The 3 fucking wars that freed Italy from the rule of the Austrian empire(ironic too?), etc, were all just dirty fascists trying to erode the good name of the state.
Are you being contrarian just for the sake of it or what? When the people feel they're not being represented properly they're going to find a way to get the representation they feel they deserve. This is an issue that could have been addressed years ago, but Spain didn't want Catalonia to have any voice, now they reap what they sow.
[QUOTE=Mechanical43;52739546]dude it's fucked. you think it's okay because you've been in that culture since birth.
I wouldn't want to get gently slapped on the face and I don't think it's quite a stretch to say that most people wouldn't either.[/QUOTE]
Because a the occasional gentle slap is so, so horribly fucked. It's on the back of the head, which doesn't even sting like a face slap does. Collejas aren't even a disciplinary thing half of the time, it's done between close friends when someone's being an idiot a lot of the time. Either that or any time a kid gets a short haircut, everybody else gets a colleja in on them... and kids are always cunts who like to aim for the neck.
I wish I had the money to go away from this bullshit. And tomorrow I will have to deal with a pointless strike and maybe the army in the streets. Having 10 minutes of independence is going to be totally worth it!
[QUOTE=Kierany9;52739791]Because a the occasional gentle slap is so, so horribly fucked. It's on the back of the head, which doesn't even sting like a face slap does. Collejas aren't even a disciplinary thing half of the time, it's done between close friends when someone's being an idiot a lot of the time. Either that or any time a kid gets a short haircut, everybody else gets a colleja in on them... and kids are always cunts who like to aim for the neck.[/QUOTE]
Yes. It is. Stop excusing this dumbass tradition, beating people up, even "gently" is fucked up.
Illegal vote or not, you have to be handicapped to think this is the way it should be handled
[QUOTE=Mechanical43;52739546]dude it's fucked. you think it's okay because you've been in that culture since birth.
I wouldn't want to get gently slapped on the face and I don't think it's quite a stretch to say that most people wouldn't either.[/QUOTE]
It's not even a slap, it's a gentle pat in the back of the head.
Patting someone isn't hitting or beating people up, stop being so moronic.
I haven't been in this culture since birth, i'm swiss
[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;52739701]Really nice red-baiting you've got going on here but I'll bite. Guess the American Revolutionary War, Bosnian War, Belgian Revolution, Eighty Years' War, Peninsular War(Irony to say the least), any war for independence through-out history, The 3 fucking wars that freed Italy from the rule of the Austrian empire(ironic too?), etc, were all just dirty fascists trying to erode the good name of the state.
Are you being contrarian just for the sake of it or what? When the people feel they're not being represented properly they're going to find a way to get the representation they feel they deserve. This is an issue that could have been addressed years ago, but Spain didn't want Catalonia to have any voice, now they reap what they sow.[/QUOTE]
The problem is, of all the fights you quoted, all were when those states were actually a danger for the community, and I can speak for the austrian case as my city has been under its influence until 1861.
But Catalonia's case: I don't see people getting thrown in jail because they didn't respected the spanish way of culture, and has an autonomy that not even basque have. All is a matter of money, as catalonians think that they are getting nothing back and think to be repressed.
Remember also this: your country was founded when you were NOT represented in the british parliament, and had no rights.
Of course, I condemn what Madrid has done, but two wrongs do not make a right.
speech has finished, what a fucking idiot
[QUOTE=eirexe;52742712]speech has finished, what a fucking idiot[/QUOTE]
[media]https://twitter.com/DavuuWart/status/915294346571915264[/media]
I wish this was the real speech
[QUOTE=MarcusSmith;52739622]But if California declares independence from the United States of America the US army would occupy it. And no one would say shit but say "the US is right".[/QUOTE]
I for one would probably not say that.
[QUOTE=MarcusSmith;52741968]The problem is, of all the fights you quoted, [I]all were when those states were actually a danger for the community[/I], and I can speak for the austrian case as my city has been under its influence until 1861.
[/quote]
Ah so is the current police brutality against Catalonian civilians not a danger for the community? Because it sure seems like it's an active danger to me.
[quote]
But Catalonia's case: I don't see people getting thrown in jail because they didn't respected the spanish way of culture...
[/quote]
Except we're sorta seeing exactly that right now. Though I'd also wager that seeing police savagely beating people trying to vote is just as bad as arresting them for it.
[quote]
Remember also this: your country was founded when you were NOT represented in the british parliament, and had no rights.
[/QUOTE]
Actually I'm a British ex-pat living in the US for now. Besides that was actually my entire point. Catalonia doesn't feel it have proper representation, neither did the early US, even though the early US did actually have a lot of autonomy other than taxes and such. They're entirely comparable actually.
[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;52745858]Ah so is the current police brutality against Catalonian civilians not a danger for the community? Because it sure seems like it's an active danger to me.
[/QUOTE]
Boy, there's a shitload of difference between CENTURIES of repression, no free will, no real representation and a mismanagement of order control. Here Spain with no doubt has done the shittiest thing ever, and I condemn it in first place, but if a referendum about independence is illegal under constitution and not under a law, constitution that was signed by catalan people as well in the 70s after Franco's death, then Spain has to do all it can to make it clear that if they really want a referendum, they have to modify the constitution first. Of course, Police brutality is always fucking awful.
Also, here an example of true repression: Kurdistan.
They were meant to have a country, but nobody gave them land and were repressed heavily.
How does someone change the laws regarding a topic if they don't have a proper referendum to decide if they even actually should be doing said thing? How do you go about doing something in the best interests of your people if you don't know what your people want? Don't shift goal posts here mate, lets be honest.
Are you straight up saying that because it's "illegal" they shouldn't be doing it? Right mate so by that same defense people seeking equal rights in the US 50's and 60's had no right to do what they did because "well it was illegal for them to do it so they should have changed the laws first". You realise "It's illegal" isn't a valid defense for excessive, fascist police brutality against what was otherwise a peaceful democratic process right?
Guess if they didn't want to be attacked by dogs and blasted down the street with fire hoses those equal rights protestors should have just changed the laws regarding said rights. :downs: not that police brutality isn't bad of course.
This is how policy gets changed, people decide on thing then go about figuring out said thing. You don't just jump right to "well they should have changed the laws" if that's literally what would be the next step of the process from where they currently were. Like do you believe that the second the referendum came in Catalonia would instantly declare war on Spain if the results were independence or what?
[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;52746186]How does someone change the laws regarding a topic if they don't have a proper referendum to decide if they even actually should be doing said thing? How do you go about doing something in the best interests of your people if you don't know what your people want? Don't shift goal posts here mate, lets be honest.
Are you straight up saying that because it's "illegal" they shouldn't be doing it? Right mate so by that same defense people seeking equal rights in the US 50's and 60's had no right to do what they did because "well it was illegal for them to do it so they should have changed the laws first". You realise "It's illegal" isn't a valid defense for excessive, fascist police brutality against what was otherwise a peaceful democratic process right?
Guess if they didn't want to be attacked by dogs and blasted down the street with fire hoses those equal rights protestors should have just changed the laws regarding said rights. :downs: not that police brutality isn't bad of course.
This is how policy gets changed, people decide on thing then go about figuring out said thing. You don't just jump right to "well they should have changed the laws" if that's literally what would be the next step of the process from where they currently were. Like do you believe that the second the referendum came in Catalonia would instantly declare war on Spain if the results were independence or what?[/QUOTE]
Or maybe like in any other civilized nation of Europe, make a referendum for a constitutional change, pressing for it, then do the referendum for the independence.
Why make a constitutional change if you're not even sure you're going to want to use said change. Bureaucratic waste really.
Maybe like any other civilised nation in Europe they shouldn't be responding with illegal acts of police violence to a peaceful democratic act?
It's like saying they should have negotiated Brexit deals before holding the referendum on if it should happen or not. It's a huge waste of tax payer dollars to skip steps like that.
[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;52746441]Why make a constitutional change if you're not even sure you're going to want to use said change. Bureaucratic waste really.[/QUOTE]
Maybe because is better a peaceful independence than a bloody one?
[QUOTE=MarcusSmith;52746449]Maybe because is better a peaceful independence than a bloody one?[/QUOTE]
Are you really victim blaming on a national scale and justifying Spain's oppression of Catalonia??
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52746452]Are you really victim blaming on a national scale and justifying Spain's oppression of Catalonia??[/QUOTE]
Do you even know what true oppression is? I am condemning what the police did, but I do condemn Catalonia too.
As I told before, prove me that Catalonia was oppressed other times in the past that is not this week.
[QUOTE=MarcusSmith;52746460]Do you even know what true oppression is? I am condemning what the police did, but I do condemn Catalonia too.
As I told before, prove me that Catalonia was oppressed other times in the past that is not this week.[/QUOTE]
why in gods name would Catalonian citizens rally illegally to vote for independence for NO REASON
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52746565]why in gods name would Catalonian citizens rally illegally to vote for independence for NO REASON[/QUOTE]
Misinformation at best.
See Brexit and Trump.
[QUOTE=MarcusSmith;52746588]Misinformation at best.
See Brexit and Trump.[/QUOTE]
misinformation isn't enough to get people to risk their own personal safety to vote for something. You need personal experience for that
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52746592]misinformation isn't enough to get people to risk their own personal safety to vote for something. You need personal experience for that[/QUOTE]
Then ask yourself this: why they had only recently the urge to get independent and not like times ago?
[QUOTE=MarcusSmith;52746598]Then ask yourself this: why they had only recently the urge to get independent and not like times ago?[/QUOTE]
Because their oppression is now so ridiculously overt that they felt it was time to stand up. Other people were doing it, so they felt empowered
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52746606]Because their oppression is now so ridiculously overt that they felt it was time to stand up. Other people were doing it, so they felt empowered[/QUOTE]
Again, prove me when was the last time Catalonia got oppressed excluding this week.
Ask someone from Catalonia, the ones breaking the law just to voice their opinions saying they want to be independant
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