‘Brexit’ Fuels Feeling in Scotland That Time Is Right for Independence - Polidicks

I respect the right for any country to fuck itself over. If Britain can do it I don't see why Scotland can't.

[QUOTE=Vasili;51959358]I thought Spain wasn't going to do this now. Hmm. Arguments used against Brexit now in favour of independence. Scotland will see itself fucked for a few years as it tries to negotiate terms for joiniing the EU by itself, the whole UK will be hit too.[/QUOTE] You could've prevented this if you didn't buy into the bollocks, but now no matter what, whether Brexit is good or bad, our country is going to be torn asunder like pulling the label off a book cover. We're [B]fucked.[/B]

[QUOTE=Scot;51959835]Yeah the Scottish people don't deserve to be represented fairly and proportionally. They should be happy having their votes not matter.[/QUOTE] As per the GovUK website and BBC election reports from 2015. The total number of people registered to vote in 2015 across the ENTIRE UK was 46,425,386. The total number of people registered to vote in Scotland was 4.2~ million. The total number who voted Conservative was 11,334,920. Even if you say the all the Tory votes came from outside Scotland, that still leaves ~30 million people who don't want them. Better yet, 26~ Million people in England, the country that suppsibly wants Tories in power, don't, and EVEN BETTER, England electorate was 37~ million, so they're the majority too! Go fucking figure. We all got fucking dicked by the democratic system, and if you really want to go into the whole representation stuff, epecailly (depsite myself fucking hating them) UKIP who got 1 bloody seat to SNP's 57. And for those who do not understand british politics, All this came about because the Labour fucked itself in the mid 2000's, hemorrhaged votes to SNP and UKIP and let the Tories win by default more than anything. And because Labour continues to be fucked, nothings changed.

[QUOTE=The mouse;51961352]Because they were already given the "once in a lifetime" opportunity 3 years ago. Brexit changes nothing because an independent Scotland would still be outside the EU.[/QUOTE] No, but it would give them the chance to get back in after the rest of the UK collectively decided to run away from home and move into Uncle Scruffy's trailer where they can totally make it big by dropping out of high school and starting a band.

I don't understand the hostility against having another referendum. Is that not what plenty of people were asking for for Brexit? I voted No and whilst I'm currently on the line, I see absolutely no problem with asking the question again. Theresa May needs to tread lightly with her language as she is in a position where any of her arguments have the potential to be used against her re: Brexit. Biggest problem with the Indy argument is the problems it's caused within friend groups and families, and hope people have realised that they shouldn't be as emotional and be blind with patriotism as they were before. Looking directly at you, Flapadar & Ph:lxyz.

[QUOTE=Instant Mix;51968810]I don't understand the hostility against having another referendum. Is that not what plenty of people were asking for for Brexit? I voted No and whilst I'm currently on the line, I see absolutely no problem with asking the question again. Theresa May needs to tread lightly with her language as she is in a position where any of her arguments have the potential to be used against her re: Brexit. Biggest problem with the Indy argument is the problems it's caused within friend groups and families, and hope people have realised that they shouldn't be as emotional and be blind with patriotism as they were before. Looking directly at you, Flapadar & Ph:lxyz.[/QUOTE] The hostility towards another referendum is largely down to the fact that all the evidence shows that Scots don't [I]want[/I] another one yet. Whilst there might be support for independence, the majority of people (excluding DKs) don't want to hold yet another referendum so soon after the first indyref and the brexit ref. Have one in the future sure, but not right now.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51961045]they said that about brexit and donald trump[/QUOTE] only the ones who didn't want them, obviously not the people who voted for them, experts maybe?

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51969763]only the ones who didn't want them, obviously not the people who voted for them, experts maybe?[/QUOTE] but we don't need experts if experts say "scottish independence isn't happening", well sorry but they're wrong

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51969763]only the ones who didn't want them, obviously not the people who voted for them, experts maybe?[/QUOTE] Pretty sure those who voted leave as a form of protest didn't expect it to win, actually.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51969797]but we don't need experts if experts say "scottish independence isn't happening", well sorry but they're wrong[/QUOTE] That's funny, because everyone was insisting that we should listen to the experts in regards to Brexit. So many of the arguments being put forward in defence of another Scottish referendum massively contradict the criticisms of Brexit.

Yeah I've noticed that too. But I want to ask a direct question: Who here thinks, in regards to Brexit, the direct democracy approach to a second referendum should be forgone in Scotland? There were many who said a vote to leave should have been at least 60%; if not more.

[QUOTE=Vasili;51969960]Yeah I've noticed that too. But I want to ask a direct question: Who here thinks, in regards to Brexit, the direct democracy approach to a second referendum should be forgone in Scotland? There were many who said a vote to leave should have been at least 60%; if not more.[/QUOTE] To be honest, I'm not a fan of the idea of a 60% requirement. First, everyone seemed happy with the 50/50 method both before and after the first Scottish referendum - I'm not sure why Brexit is a special case that it needs to be different. Second, I just generally don't like the idea that we can be put in a position where the majority vote loses. I've seen many remainers kick up a stink over the fact that 16 million people have have been "ignored" - and they are the minority. I don't see how ignoring 17 million instead is a fairer method.

[QUOTE=David29;51970020]To be honest, I'm not a fan of the idea of a 60% requirement. First, everyone seemed happy with the 50/50 method both before and after the first Scottish referendum - I'm not sure why Brexit is a special case that it needs to be different. Second, I just generally don't like the idea that we can be put in a position where the majority vote loses. I've seen many remainers kick up a stink over the fact that 16 million people have have been "ignored" - and they are the minority. I don't see how ignoring 17 million instead is a fairer method.[/QUOTE] A decision that big should not have been put up to a simple majority. David Cameron was a fucking idiot.

[QUOTE=David29;51970020]To be honest, I'm not a fan of the idea of a 60% requirement. First, everyone seemed happy with the 50/50 method both before and after the first Scottish referendum - I'm not sure why Brexit is a special case that it needs to be different. Second, I just generally don't like the idea that we can be put in a position where the majority vote loses. I've seen many remainers kick up a stink over the fact that 16 million people have have been "ignored" - and they are the minority. I don't see how ignoring 17 million instead is a fairer method.[/QUOTE] I'd argue that a majority requirement (not necessarily 60% but still) should absolutely be required for referendums that involve stuff like becoming an independent country. I am pro-independence but I still believe that a little over 50% is not good enough because it's a pretty serious decision to make.

[QUOTE=David29;51969896]That's funny, because everyone was insisting that we should listen to the experts in regards to Brexit. So many of the arguments being put forward in defence of another Scottish referendum massively contradict the criticisms of Brexit.[/QUOTE] well ever since brexit happened that sort of stuff doesnt matter anymore

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51971300]well ever since brexit happened that sort of stuff doesnt matter anymore[/QUOTE] - Nevermind -

[QUOTE=ChadMcGoatMan;51971391]Except British Unionists/Nationalists will keep using this excuse to abused Scots for keep their fantasy view on current state of UK is right now until they died.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but what is up with your sentences, man? Are you using speech-to-text or something?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51971300]well now that it doesn't support my argument that sort of stuff doesnt matter anymore[/QUOTE] Fixed that for you.

[QUOTE=David29;51971881]Fixed that for you.[/QUOTE] most of these so called "experts" are now dismissing scottish independence if brexit happens in spite of them i don't see what's wrong with scottish independence even if its a bad idea

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51971903]most of these so called "experts" are now dismissing scottish independence if brexit happens in spite of them i don't see what's wrong with scottish independence even if its a bad idea[/QUOTE] So you do agree that Scottish Independence is a bad idea, then?

It's fucking hilarious to see Leavers try to justify arguments in favor of Scotland remaining You can't have it both ways. You started the trend.

My fear for scottland leaving is such: Scotland is just full of great sensible people Who always have very, very few Tory seats, on account of being sensible fellows, at least so far as to not vote blue. If they go, the Tories are going to have a lot more seats. The English and welsh are fucked to live under perpetual Tory rule. Yeah, Brexit was a "working class" middle finger to the torries and brussels. Nice going, you fucktards. You've shot yourself in the foot and used the hole to trap your balls for a good, removing stomp.

[QUOTE=The Jack;51972770]My fear for scottland leaving is such: Scotland are just great sensible people Who always have very, very few tory seats, on account of being sensible fellows, at least so far as to not vote blue. If they go, the Tories are going to have a lot more seats. The English and welsh are fucked to live under perpetual Tory rule. Yeah, Brexit was a "working class" middle finger to the torries and brussels. Nice going, you fucktards. You've shot yourself in the foot and used the hole to trap your balls for a good, removing stomp.[/QUOTE] if tories get even bigger it's possible that they might end up splitting into two parties (probably one that'll end up absorbing UKIP and going further right while the original stays put or even goes slightly left) [editline]17th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=David29;51972552]So you do agree that Scottish Independence is a bad idea, then?[/QUOTE] it's a good idea

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51972850]it's a good idea[/QUOTE] Ok, so then I will assume that you agree that Brexit may well be a good idea and the experts are wrong about Brexit as well.

[QUOTE=David29;51972922]Ok, so then I will assume that you agree that Brexit may well be a good idea and the experts are wrong about Brexit as well.[/QUOTE] How did you reach this conclusion?

[QUOTE=The Jack;51972770]My fear for scottland leaving is such: Scotland are just great sensible people Who always have very, very few tory seats, on account of being sensible fellows, at least so far as to not vote blue. If they go, the Tories are going to have a lot more seats. The English and welsh are fucked to live under perpetual Tory rule. [/QUOTE] Firstly Read the last page specfically my post, and then rethink the "England and Wales want Tory" stance you got, it's not true no matter how much the SNP want to say it is. Secondly Scotland cannot vote to stay in the UK in 2014 to try and change things, then piss it's collective vote into the wind for the second General Election in a row by voting SNP and then absolve itself of any blame (after labour takes it's more than fair share) when we all end up with Tories again.

[QUOTE=David29;51972922]Ok, so then I will assume that you agree that Brexit may well be a good idea and the experts are wrong about Brexit as well.[/QUOTE] can we get some sources on experts about scottish independence post brexit vote please because you keep talking about them

[QUOTE=geel9;51972563]It's fucking hilarious to see Leavers try to justify arguments in favor of Scotland remaining You can't have it both ways. You started the trend.[/QUOTE] Who would have thought brexit would have consequences

I'm a yank who has no business getting involved but I'm 100% in favor of Scottish independence, Brexit or no Brexit. [QUOTE=thread music][video=youtube;Oi7xBe5-M8k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi7xBe5-M8k[/video][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51972990]can we get some sources on experts about scottish independence post brexit vote please because you keep talking about them[/QUOTE] I'm discussing with Sobotnik the principal rather than anything specific. He's stated that expert views are wrong and not needed. Quite a U-turn from what remainers thought about expert views in regards to Brexit.