‘Brexit’ Fuels Feeling in Scotland That Time Is Right for Independence - Polidicks

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51978154]What consequences? We haven't even left yet! I read the links, the independent is as biased as the daily mail, the rolling stones is conjecture and one of the Australian business links was not even relevant to the Brexit. The links were generalising at best and didn't prove what I asked. How amI going to learn anything from people who constantly repeat the same rhetoric about 17 million people being fucktards. I understand people's concerns even though I don't necessarily agree, but this constant bullshit rhetoric is just tiresome. I'm under no illusion that there might be some repercussions from leaving Europe but to be honest if unlike most of the shit posters here you have a brain and a work ethic there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to make a decent living now or in the future. This place is full of keyboard warriors posting links that have absolutely no relevance to 90% of the population. Every thread about the UK is apocalyptic bullshit. If people used as much energy making something of their lives as they do talking shit here they would be doing well, like me [/QUOTE] I'm assuming, since you didn't mention it, that you agree with my point that you didn't know whether or not the articles were relevant until you read them just now or sometime after I made the post originally (You wrote "I read the links" not "I had read the links" so I'm not sure). I'm assuming you also agree with my other points, including that it's unlikely that the people involved changed their views since the polls were done (especially since you said they were "being fucktards" not "they were being fucktards but aren't now because they changed their minds") and that they did in fact vote for Brexit as a protest vote originally as I mentioned. [QUOTE]I'm under no illusion that there might be some repercussions from leaving Europe but to be honest if unlike most of the shit posters here you have a brain and a work ethic there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to make a decent living now or in the future. This place is full of keyboard warriors posting links that have absolutely no relevance to 90% of the population. Every thread about the UK is apocalyptic bullshit. If people used as much energy making something of their lives as they do talking shit here they would be doing well, like me[/QUOTE] How does a person posting in a thread indicate whether or not they are doing well? Or whether they have a work ethic for that matter? For all you know, I could be a very articulate hobo.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51978154]What consequences? We haven't even left yet! I'm under no illusion that there might be some repercussions from leaving Europe but to be honest if unlike most of the shit posters here you have a brain and a work ethic there is absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to make a decent living now or in the future. If people used as much energy making something of their lives as they do talking shit here they would be doing well, like me [/QUOTE] there is zero substance to these points, what a pile of dogshit "it doesn't matter if the situation gets worse, if you work hard you can make a decent living!!!"

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51978166] "it doesn't matter if the situation gets worse, if you work hard you can make a decent living!!!"[/QUOTE] Well yes, that's the basis on conservative economic theory. There are many arguments you could make about why isn't correct, but just repeating what UK Bohemian said back to them in a slightly derogatory fashion doesn't make an argument. For example, without a certain standard of education in a public school system, it would be impossible for anyone who can't afford a private school education to be able to achieve the grades that they need to get into higher education- which most high paying careers would require. This would mean even an einstein-level intelligent person wouldn't be able to do as well as the stupidest rich kid no matter how hard they work. Private school kids can be pretty dumb but still do better in standardized testing because their schools hire the same teachers who write the tests- who ultimately just give them the answers to the test in advance, so all they have to do is memorize them. Meanwhile, public school teachers have to basically guess what will appear on the test and usually need to teach their students literally everything just in case. In really poor neighbourhoods, the teachers in public schools don't even bother teaching the students anything and the students are too worried about avoiding being shot in the street to study. With those conditions in mind, the idea of "anyone can succeed if they try hard enough" seems very unlikely because for some it is genuinely impossible for them to succeed in acquiring necessary job skills in the amount of time that the profession remains relevant. Imagine starting to learn computer programming and by the time you actually manage to pass all the tests (with the terrible resources you have available and noone willing to help you, having no internet, needing to spend long amounts of time working several jobs, going long stretches of time without food and piecing together what scraps of information you can find from old books and magazines or even just trial and error) and finish your studying all of your skills have no become so outdated that your skillset is useless. And even if you do succeed, what about your friends and family? Unless you're a complete sociopath, you've now got to support about a dozen other people who would all be suffering from illnesses and poor living conditions- and they're going to drag you down and make it impossible for you to focus on your career or invest what little money you do have in anything else.

[QUOTE=Zyler;51978178]Well yes, that's the basis on conservative economic theory. There are many arguments you could make about why isn't correct, but just repeating what UK Bohemian said back to them in a slightly derogatory fashion doesn't make an argument. [/QUOTE] the argument makes itself, the statement is utterly absurd even a child would see that you're getting a bad deal if one of the points is "things will get worse but if you work hard [I]you might be alright[/I]" - that isn't a reason to do anything, in fact, if the point being made is that with additional hard work we can get to a stage which we were already at/heading to, it's an argument against, why would we want to just [I]waste work? [/I] i'll admit my tone is derogatory but 'being the better person' really isn't in my interests when my country is about to reap the rewards of bohemian and other's terrible fucking "reasoning"

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;51978202]the argument makes itself, the statement is utterly absurd even a child would see that you're getting a bad deal if one of the points is "things will get worse but if you work hard [I]you might be alright[/I]" - that isn't a reason to do anything, in fact, if the point being made is that with additional hard work we can get to a stage which we were already at/heading to, it's an argument against, why would we want to just [I]waste work?[/I][/QUOTE] Okay, good point.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51978041]The polls show how folks "felt" 3 or 4 months after the Brexit result. So if these people can change their minds in 3 or 4 months how do they feel now? If polls are to be believed we wouldn't have Brexit or Trump.[/QUOTE] It's somewhat amazing that people still repeat the "The polls are wrong" paradigm, despite it having been disproved so many times. Especially on this forum

[QUOTE=gokiyono;51978206]It's somewhat amazing that people still repeat the "The polls are wrong" paradigm, despite it having been disproved so many times. Especially on this forum[/QUOTE] a key deflection tactic of people arguing in favour of brexit is to attack polls, and to peddle this view that the future is somehow "unknowable" this is because they lack the ability to actually attack the predictions made by various entities (including [url=https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hm-treasury-analysis-the-long-term-economic-impact-of-eu-membership-and-the-alternatives]our own fucking treasury[/url]), so they have to attack the idea that such predictions can be made in the first place

[QUOTE=gokiyono;51978206]It's somewhat amazing that people still repeat the "The polls are wrong" paradigm, despite it having been disproved so many times. Especially on this forum[/QUOTE] The polls were correct. They predicted that the brexit vote would be split about 50-50- which they were- and they predicted that Trump would have a 30% chance of winning- and he won based on that 30% chance. Keep in mind that a six-sided die has about a 1 in 6 (which is about 17%) chance of rolling any particular number and each number tends to be rolled pretty frequently, so 30% is actually pretty likely. Like if I said you had a 30% of having brain cancer, unless you have a pretty severe case of [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler's_fallacy]gambler's fallacy[/url] it's not the same thing as me saying "you definitely do not have brain cancer".

There are two kinds of people who vote leave for real. One, the rarer one, the guy who votes tory and knows what that entails. The guy who's personal economic interests would benefit from leaving the EU (less abroad competition for his local business) and creating a sphere of right wing politics. Two, the more common type, is scared, angry, and gullible, and feels a need to have their ridiculed values (The muslims are definetly invading, several years from now we'll all be islam, etc) supported by society. The "fuck the Tory" crowd didn't really mean to have their vote count for something. If you took away those votes, that tiny margin of victory would have disappeared.

If Scotland can get itself out of the hole its dug landing itself with a bigger deficit than Greece, then I have no issue with them leaving, because we know then they have a chance at joining the EU, but with that deficit, it will just end up being a drag on the EU and thus most likely not be able to join. People will just have to understand that the companies will jump the border back to the UK, especially financial and defense contractors and the industry surrounding that.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51978154]What consequences? We haven't even left yet![/QUOTE] Why are all leave voters (who stand by their retarded fucking choice) so oblivious to reality? "WE HAVEN'T EVEN LEFT YETTTTTTT" isn't a shut-down to the argument of "Brexit has negative consequences". The mere act of deciding to leave the Union impacts our standing in the international community. Especially when the reasons for leaving are nebulous and the decision wasn't remotely made in good faith via in-depth discussion but rather a referendum that the Tories insisted to treat as a direct democratic vote. By saying "yeah we want to leave", we're harming relationships with allied countries. We aren't the ones with all the cards here, we're the ones who have to convince the larger EU states that partnerships with us will still be worth their time (despite losing the economic benefits of free trade). Germany doesn't have to convince us to keep trading with them, they've got an entire continent to trade with. France doesn't need to convince us to trade with them, we need them for our energy supplies as France aren't scared to build NPEs and we are slowly moving off fossil fuels over time. We bring...London to the table? That's about it. London being a financial centre for the EU right now doesn't mean much as finance is largely just data, data can be handled anywhere. Another capital city could easily inherit the required infrastructure to take that role. Just the mere act of proposing to leave incited a shitload of uncertainty in the markets, scared investors away and as a result fucking our currency up something fierce to the point that it has shown no sign of full recovering. It's plateaued after the huge drop from the night of our stupidest decision in the last while. We're in an inherently weaker position. We have a PM who couldn't give a rats ass about our population actually having the chance to grow and take part in the world like we always have done (instead she opts to get pally with President Trump, another abortion of an idea). Not that you'll actually read any of this or care seeing as you're "doing well". Hmmm, "doing well", sure sounds like the words of the [I]elite[/I] that you leave voters claim to so dearly despise.

Scotland is free to choose but not right now.

[QUOTE=Zyler;51978165] How does a person posting in a thread indicate whether or not they are doing well? Or whether they have a work ethic for that matter? For all you know, I could be a very articulate hobo.[/QUOTE] I think he's still bitching about a thread from a week ago, A few posters, myself included, were talking about how the current UK government is completely out of touch with reality and how their lack of understanding of the struggles working class people can face is probably part of why everything they do seems to shaft the poorest or most vulnerable members of society. Anyway, this idiot comes into the thread, tried really hard to make it into a conversation about brexit, and then stopped posting when people called him out on it. Seriously he just posted some dumb shit about how ~if the EU is so great how come ur life sucks?!!!, why don't you have robots that sucks your balls for you!?~ and apparently, he has decided that this embarrassing line of thinking was so clever that it was worth bringing up for a second time in another thread lmao

[QUOTE=TheCrown;51983458]Scotland is free to choose but not right now.[/QUOTE] how to patronise a country 101

Rite rite rite. Hear me out guise. UK leaves EU Scotland Leaves UK Scotland Joins EU Scotland Annexes UK We're in the EU, eating a deep fried mars bar Gud Gud

[QUOTE=fulgrim;51983969]I think he's still bitching about a thread from a week ago, A few posters, myself included, were talking about how the current UK government is completely out of touch with reality and how their lack of understanding of the struggles working class people can face is probably part of why everything they do seems to shaft the poorest or most vulnerable members of society. Anyway, this idiot comes into the thread, tried really hard to make it into a conversation about brexit, and then stopped posting when people called him out on it. Seriously he just posted some dumb shit about how ~if the EU is so great how come ur life sucks?!!!, why don't you have robots that sucks your balls for you!?~ and apparently, he has decided that this embarrassing line of thinking was so clever that it was worth bringing up for a second time in another thread lmao[/QUOTE] slightly misleading, weren't you the one who was bitching about how tough life is for you and your mum too then in the next breath start banging on about how the UK will be shit if we leave the EU when apparently it's shit already. were you expecting the EU to improve your situation somehow? are you basing your undying adulation on the EU on graphs and trade and shit? and you talk about embarrasing lines of thinking, lol.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51988120]are you basing your undying adulation on the EU on graphs and trade and shit? and you talk about embarrasing lines of thinking, lol.[/QUOTE] Coming from someone who by his own admission bases his opinions on "feelings" this is fucking hilarious.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51988189]Coming from someone who by his own admission bases his opinions on "feelings" this is fucking hilarious.[/QUOTE] on experience and mostly good. :cool:

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51988212]on experience and mostly good. :cool:[/QUOTE] Careful lads, we got a prime minister on this forum. [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] Or alternatively someone who makes as much use of anecdotal evidence as he decries others for.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51988120]slightly misleading, weren't you the one who was bitching about how tough life is for you and your mum too then in the next breath start banging on about how the UK will be shit if we leave the EU when apparently it's shit already.[/quote] Maybe he doesn't want things to get worse? [quote] were you expecting the EU to improve your situation somehow? are you basing your undying adulation on the EU on graphs and trade and shit?[/quote] If he thinks the EU is going to be better for the country (through regulations, through free trade, through mutual development with europe) then whats wrong with him supporting the EU? Especially if he has "graphs and trade and shit" to back his argument up. [quote]and you talk about embarrasing lines of thinking, lol.[/QUOTE] Your posts seem to be consistently poor. Please do better for your own sake. If you have conviction in your beliefs you should try to make a better case for them.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51988218]Careful lads, we got a prime minister on this forum. [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] Or alternatively someone who makes as much use of anecdotal evidence as he decries others for.[/QUOTE] only fulgrims wasn't anecdotal evidence, it was contradictory. keep up.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51988226]If he thinks the EU is going to be better for the country (through regulations, through free trade, through mutual development with europe) then whats wrong with him supporting the EU? Especially if he has "graphs and trade and shit" to back his argument up.[/QUOTE] No you see that's just objective evidence, it's no match for his tremendous experience.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51988226]Maybe he doesn't want things to get worse? If he thinks the EU is going to be better for the country (through regulations, through free trade, through mutual development with europe) then whats wrong with him supporting the EU? Especially if he has "graphs and trade and shit" to back his argument up. Your posts seem to be consistently poor. Please do better for your own sake. If you have conviction in your beliefs you should try to make a better case for them.[/QUOTE] says the rhetoric guru.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51988237]only fulgrims wasn't anecdotal evidence, it was contradictory. keep up.[/QUOTE] Don't tell me to keep up when you completely ignored our rebuttal of your ridiculous assertion that nobody voted leave as a form of protest.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51988250]Don't tell me to keep up when you completely ignored our rebuttal of your ridiculous assertion that nobody voted leave as a form of protest.[/QUOTE] i didn't ignore it, i dismissed it because it's not been proven, did i say nobody?

You completely dismiss any form of evidence that goes contrary to your opinion, be it anecdotal or substantiated by facts. You calling FP a hugbox while you cite some nebulous "experience" as support for your claims and classifying everything else as bullshit is just fucking pathetic. [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51988273]did i say nobody?[/QUOTE] Yes. [QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51977822]I want you to prove your claim that [B][I]any[/I][/B] Brexit votes were protest votes[/QUOTE] Read your own fucking posts. [QUOTE]i didn't ignore it, i dismissed it because it's not been proven[/QUOTE] Direct polling of leave voters is not proof to you? I reiterate, what the fuck would constitute acceptable proof to you other than something that aligns with your views?

[QUOTE=_Axel;51988280]You completely dismiss any form of evidence that goes contrary to your opinion, be it anecdotal or substantiated by facts. You calling FP a hugbox while you cite some nebulous "experience" as support for your claims and classifying everything else as bullshit is just fucking pathetic.[/QUOTE] cherry picking articles don't count as facts, being convinced by flimsy media bull because it agrees with your narrative is pathetic.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51988296]cherry picking articles don't count as facts, being convinced by flimsy media bull because it agrees with your narrative is pathetic.[/QUOTE] You did the exact same thing though?

[QUOTE=_Axel;51988280]You completely dismiss any form of evidence that goes contrary to your opinion, be it anecdotal or substantiated by facts. You calling FP a hugbox while you cite some nebulous "experience" as support for your claims and classifying everything else as bullshit is just fucking pathetic. [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] Yes. Read your own fucking posts. Direct polling of leave voters is not proof to you? I reiterate, what the fuck would constitute acceptable proof to you other than something that aligns with your views?[/QUOTE] read what i said properly, where did i say nobody protest voted, i simply asked you to prove it, you didn't.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51988296]cherry picking articles don't count as facts, being convinced by flimsy media bull because it agrees with your narrative is pathetic.[/QUOTE] If you count sourcing one's claims as cherry picking then perhaps you should present us with sturdier sources that support yours instead of pretending to know everything based on experience you won't even describe to us. [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51988307]read what i said properly, where did i say nobody protest voted, i simply asked you to prove it, you didn't.[/QUOTE] You asked to prove that [I]any[/I] leave vote was a protest vote. Showing that a single vote was a protest vote is proof of that, and the polls presented proof that more than a single vote was made with the intention to protest. Again, if [I]that[/I] doesn't, what would constitute acceptable proof to you?