‘Brexit’ Fuels Feeling in Scotland That Time Is Right for Independence - Polidicks

[QUOTE=_Axel;51988310]If you count sourcing one's claims as cherry picking then perhaps you should present us with sturdier sources that support yours instead of pretending to know everything based on experience you won't even describe to us. [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] You asked to prove that [I]any[/I] leave vote was a protest vote. Showing that a single vote was a protest vote is proof of that, and the polls presented proof that more than a single vote was made with the intention to protest. Again, if [I]that[/I] doesn't, what would constitute acceptable proof to you?[/QUOTE] there were no articles that directly addressed whether people admitted that they voted solely as a protest.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51988296]cherry picking articles don't count as facts, being convinced by flimsy media bull because it agrees with your narrative is pathetic.[/QUOTE] I think I get what you're saying. If reality exists only in our minds then can we believe it? Can we therefore rely on "facts" based upon that subjective reality? A philo-political theory spanning 6 dimensions, nested deep within 17 magnitudes of cognitive closure and buried deep in the barrow of king "I refuse to believe anything you say".

Claiming that the other side of the argument is bull because the other side is using flimsy media sources when you refuse to explain the details of your experience is a bit rich . Your source is ten times more unreliable because you refuse to explain the experinence.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51988327]there were no articles that directly addressed whether people admitted that they voted solely as a protest.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]It has become a commonplace: The notion that many people who voted “Leave” in the EU referendum now regret their vote because they didn’t think “Leave” would win or they didn’t realise the consequences of leaving the Single Market would be so bad. If you search for “Brexit I didn’t think it would happen” you get dozens of stories about hapless voters who thought they were merely casting a protest vote, not fundamentally altering the economic and constitutional basis of the entire country. Now, a poll from British Election Study, an academic group dedicated to voting trend research, has found that the portion of Leave voters who regret their vote (or “don’t know”) is greater than the total margin of victory for Brexit. The poll was noticed by The Economist: Read more at [url]https://www.businessinsider.com/brex...4u387CLoAzd.99[/url][/QUOTE] Seriously, what's even the point of you trying to dismiss the idea that as much as a [I]single[/I] person cast their vote as a middle finger to Cameron and the Tories? Do you have an any more vain point to make?

IDK what you guys are arguing about anymore.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51988330]I think I get what you're saying. If reality exists only in our minds then can we believe it? Can we therefore rely on "facts" based upon that subjective reality? A philo-political theory spanning 6 dimensions, nested deep within 17 magnitudes of cognitive closure and buried deep in the barrow of king "I refuse to believe anything you say".[/QUOTE] more rhetoric

[QUOTE=Vasili;51988348]IDK what you guys are arguing about anymore.[/QUOTE] UK Bohemian seems to be arguing that we should trust his word over all other sources, based on experience he won't even disclose the nature of.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51988338]Seriously, what's even the point of you trying to dismiss the idea that as much as a [I]single[/I] person cast their vote as a middle finger to Cameron and the Tories? Do you have an any more vain point to make?[/QUOTE] you missed my point, over reacted and now you are just trying to make out i'm the stupid one. leave voters regretting their vote months later doesn't prove that they used their vote as a protest. my point was that if as you claimed that leavers voted in numbers as a protest that you should prove this and you haven't.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51988380]you missed my point, over reacted and now you are just trying to make out i'm the stupid one. leave voters regretting their vote months later doesn't prove that they used their vote as a protest. my point was that if as you claimed that leavers voted in numbers as a protest that you should prove this and you haven't.[/QUOTE] You can't even read my original point properly and you have the gall to imply I'm stupid and overreacting? Point out where I said those who voted as a protest did so "in numbers" please. I merely said that such people do exist. Of course if you put words in my mouth you can say I'm overreacting, but with that subtle technique I could also pretend you can make sensible points.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51988120]slightly misleading, weren't you the one who was bitching about how tough life is for you and your mum too then in the next breath start banging on about how the UK will be shit if we leave the EU when apparently it's shit already. were you expecting the EU to improve your situation somehow? are you basing your undying adulation on the EU on graphs and trade and shit? and you talk about embarrasing lines of thinking, lol.[/QUOTE] Again, My contrbution to that previous thread was about how [b]Tory policy[/b] has been steadily causing a decline in the standard of living for struggling families. You tried to make the discussion about the EU, and although I felt [i]brexit[/i] had very little to do with the discussion about [B]Tory policy[/b], I went out of my way to explain exactly why I think leaving the EU wouldn't exactly help people, like me, who are already struggling under certain aspects of [b] Tory Policy[/b]- Even going so far as to explain one very specific reason concerning the link between EU funding and the disability support I am currently scraping by on. Perhaps you would understand the opposing side's position better if you didn't ignore absolutely anything that conflicts with your narrow worldview and actually looked at the facts instead of bitching about "graphs and charts!!!" while posting nothing but drivel based on your personal warm fuzzie feelings.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51988417]You can't even read my original point properly and you have the gall to imply I'm stupid and overreacting? Point out where I said those who voted as a protest did so "in numbers" please. I merely said that such people do exist. Of course if you put words in my mouth you can say I'm overreacting, but with that subtle technique I could also pretend you can make sensible points.[/QUOTE] people is plural, so in numbers? you wouldn't be suggesting like 1 or 2 would you and you wouldn't be arguing so much and trying to prove your point if you did. so yeah you did say in numbers really.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51988456]people is plural, so in numbers? you wouldn't be suggesting like 1 or 2 would you and you wouldn't be arguing so much and trying to prove your point if you did. so yeah you did say in numbers really.[/QUOTE] Look who overreacted and is now trying to make out I'm the stupid one. You said: [QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51969763]only the ones who didn't want them, obviously not the people who voted for them, experts maybe?[/QUOTE] To which I replied: [QUOTE=_Axel;51969803]Pretty sure those who voted leave as a form of protest didn't expect it to win, actually.[/QUOTE] As a counter example to your point that anybody who voted leave believed it would win. Observe how I didn't precise anything about the amount of such voters, as that would be beside the point of a counter example. Notice how I was also incredulous at your asking for proof of something as evident as protest voters existing, however few they may be. My point simply wasn't that there were numerous protest voters, simply that they were an obvious example of voters who didn't believe their "side" would win. Now if you may be so kind, please stop putting words into my mouth as a way of weaseling out of the dumb spot you snuck yourself in.

[QUOTE=fulgrim;51988450]Again, My contrbution to that previous thread was about how [b]Tory policy[/b] has been steadily causing a decline in the standard of living for struggling families. You tried to make the discussion about the EU, and although I felt [i]brexit[/i] had very little to do with the discussion about [B]Tory policy[/b], I went out of my way to explain exactly why I think leaving the EU wouldn't exactly help people, like me, who are already struggling under certain aspects of [b] Tory Policy[/b]- Even going so far as to explain one very specific reason concerning the link between EU funding and the disability support I am currently scraping by on.[/QUOTE] We're all going to have to get used to this crap. Tories are somehow "the party of the people" due to one referendum so they can do whatever the fuck they want and people will still cheer them. As for an opposition? Pass.

[QUOTE=The Jack;51984646]Rite rite rite. Hear me out guise. UK leaves EU Scotland Leaves UK Scotland Joins EU Scotland Annexes UK We're in the EU, eating a deep fried mars bar Gud Gud[/QUOTE] >UK leaves the EU. >Scotland leaves the UK. >Scotland collapses under financial pressure due to its deficit larger than Greece. >UK annexes Scotland. >Yet another European War. >UK annexes Europe w/ Anglo-sphere assistance.

[QUOTE=The cheese;51988516]We're all going to have to get used to this crap. Tories are somehow "the party of the people" due to one referendum so they can do whatever the fuck they want and people will still cheer them. As for an opposition? Pass.[/QUOTE] I will never understand how people believe the EU referendum was anything beyond a Tory power play gone wrong. Cameron was worried about losing votes to the populist UKIP (Composed almost entirely of ex Tories and ex Tory backers), so he called the entire shitshow to appeal to UKIP voters, everyone picked their sides betting on a remain victory, with the only consideration being how good they would look to ~ the people~ after said inevitable remain victory- then It blew up in their faces and May was the only one willing to step up and be the idiot holding the bag. Do people not wonder why May seems so hellbent on leaving the EU whatever the cost, despite being on the remain side prior to the referendum?- it's because no matter how wrong this goes for the rest of us, they will be isolated from the fallout by their wealth and care for little beyond how many votes they can garner from being seen adhering to [i][b]THE WILL OF[/b] 51% of [B] THE PEOPLE[/B][/i] We are making a move that will have decades of fallout for our country so that various Tories can keep their jobs, and screw up the country for a bit longer before retiring. It worked out for some of them, It didn't for others, but in a few decades time, all of them will be dead or retired, none of it will matter, and we- along with all the generations that come after us, will still be stuck with whatever mess the uk eventually ends up in.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51988120]slightly misleading, weren't you the one who was bitching about how tough life is for you and your mum too then in the next breath start banging on about how the UK will be shit if we leave the EU when apparently it's shit already. were you expecting the EU to improve your situation somehow? are you basing your undying adulation on the EU on graphs and trade and shit? and you talk about embarrasing lines of thinking, lol.[/QUOTE] It's pointless arguing with you if you're just gonna make every problem about the EU.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51988680]It's pointless arguing with you if you're just gonna make every problem about the EU.[/QUOTE] And then not bother to read anything anyone posts in response anyway, even if they humour you and actually talk about the EU.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51988680]It's pointless arguing with you if you're just gonna make every problem about the EU.[/QUOTE] it's actually the opposite though, unsubstantiated shit like this: [QUOTE] will never understand how people believe the EU referendum was anything beyond a Tory power play gone wrong. [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51992627]it's actually the opposite though, unsubstantiated shit like this:[/QUOTE] That's speculation sure, but you made someone complaining about tory policy into an argument about the EU.

I always get bothered by "52% of the people!" bullshit. Almost 30% of the country who could vote didn't vote.

[QUOTE=UK Bohemian;51992627]it's actually the opposite though, unsubstantiated shit like this:[/QUOTE] Except that's literally what it was?

[QUOTE=The Jack;51993450]I always get bothered by "52% of the people!" bullshit. Almost 30% of the country who could vote didn't vote.[/QUOTE] If you don't vote you're effectively abstaining from making a decision - and consenting for a decision to be made by other people on your behalf.

[QUOTE=The Jack;51993450]I always get bothered by "52% of the people!" bullshit. Almost 30% of the country who could vote didn't vote.[/QUOTE] I don't really think that's much of a problem tbh, If you abstain you abstain. I'm much more concerned with the fact that a vast majority of people too young to vote wanted to remain. For me it illustrates the idiocy of putting such a massive decision, that will make a permanent change to the state of our country for decades to come, to a simple majority. This isn't like a simple election, voting on who will run the country for a few years, this is something that will have effects for generations to come, and the people who will have to face those changes had absolutely no say in the matter.