Senate Dems agree to Deal to End Government Shutdown - Polidicks

Also maybe a budget bill isn't the best place for a debate on immigration but the Republicans wrote a trillion tax cut with no public hearings and rammed it through the budget reconciliation process. That wasn't fucking proper politics but they did it anyway because the GOP gives no fucks. Why should the Democrats care if they do it for ultimately good reasons?

I will not stop laughing at the idea that republicans will allow a debate on DACA to happen. This is the procrastination administration.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53073208]You are not a centrist. "it's a hostage situation if the democrats don't give up everything, and give in to the republicans demands on everything" The republicans pushed the government to shut down, again. While holding all three branches because they couldn't get [B]Everything[/B] they wanted.[/QUOTE] Never said I was a centrist. I hate ideology. In the other thread, I said I was pragmatic. Like how the Democrat Senators were pragmatic to support the Republican financing bill today. I don't see how the Republicans pushed the government to shut down? After all, they did attach the CHIP funding to the financing bill in the first place in order to get those Democrat votes. The Republicans had more to lose than the Democrats from a government shut down.

So in three weeks what happens

[QUOTE=Clovernoodle;53073222]So in three weeks what happens[/QUOTE] Seems they have to finally make a full spending bill, this is like the 4th or 5th month extension.

[QUOTE=JXZ;53073215]I will not stop laughing at the idea that republicans will allow a debate on DACA to happen.[/QUOTE] Seriously. Republicans have been lying out their ass for years.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;53073211]Also maybe a budget bill isn't the best place for a debate on immigration but the Republicans wrote a trillion tax cut with no public hearings and rammed it through the budget reconciliation process. That wasn't fucking proper politics but they did it anyway because the GOP gives no fucks. Why should the Democrats care if they do it for ultimately good reasons?[/QUOTE] Thank you for this post. The Republicans have a disgusting history of abusing legislative processes, eg using riders, and yeah, the mess that was the tax plan. And I have called them out on it. But if the Democrats do anything like that, which they did by attaching immigration reform to a bill about preventing a government shutdown, I will call them out on it as well.

[QUOTE=JXZ;53073215]I will not stop laughing at the idea that republicans will allow a debate on DACA to happen.[/QUOTE] Oh but surely they will! They control all three extensions of government and have proven over the last 12 months through their actions that they're respectable and accountable politicians! There's certainly no way they'll leverage their control of the house, senate, and presidency to stall or disrupt any conversations or pushes to actually deal with the issues they are clearly have the best minds working on? And there's also no way they'll try and push the perspective(apparently succesfully) that they actually did everything right, nor would they be so scrupulous as to slip in riders to bills over all sorts of issues that are contentious and should be open for discussion? There's no way! They'll do everything right and those darn democrats will just have to ruin it all over again. [editline]22nd January 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=BF;53073231]Thank you for this post. The Republicans have a disgusting history of abusing legislative processes, eg using riders, and yeah, the mess that was the tax plan. But if the Democrats do anything like that, which they did by attaching immigration reform to a bill about preventing a government shutdown, I will call them out on it as well.[/QUOTE] In the context of this government, which is important to have in the forefront of your mind when dealing with these topics, that's not the same thing. [editline]22nd January 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=BF;53073218]Never said I was a centrist. I hate ideology. In the other thread, I said I was pragmatic. Like how the Democrat Senators were pragmatic to support the Republican financing bill today. I don't see how the Republicans pushed the government to shut down? After all, they did attach the CHIP funding to the financing bill in the first place in order to get those Democrat votes. The Republicans had more to lose than the Democrats from a government shut down.[/QUOTE] Yes, the republicans did have more to lose, which begs the question as to why they(Mitch McConnel) said no to so many attempts at compromise(That you have repeatedly stated the Democrats don't/haven't attempted here) over the weekend?

[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53073124]How does this work? Does the gov just tell call centers to not call numbers put on the list? If so that is a pleasant surprise from the government for once. edit: fixed misplaced "not"[/QUOTE] . It worked like we would have our list of numbers, we'd have to then put all those numbers through a system that would flag any do not call numbers. Most scam call centers don't follow this of course due to being based in other countries. So not exactly much of an immediate consequence. But if you contact the FCC or FTC(depending on the call) you can file complaints if they call you and even would have the ability to sue the caller.

[QUOTE=BF;53073201]The only hostage taking in this situation was the Democrat Senators taking government financing hostage in order to pass their legislative agenda. Eventually the Democrat Senators realised how wrong they were to do that, hence why they have now agreed to support the Republican bill to re-open government and provide funding for CHIP. Now that that's out of the way, the Senators can move on to passing DACA.[/QUOTE] People spent literally pages in the last thread explaining why you're wrong on this point. Give it up already.

[QUOTE=Alice3173;53073293]People spent literally pages in the last thread explaining why you're wrong on this point. Give it up already.[/QUOTE] Somethings about the last year just make everything feel so god damn surreal. Disagreements in political arenas are no longer "I don't think that's a likely outcome" and "I do think that's a likely outcome" even with all the screaming and childish anger associated with it that was what they used to be. Now it's "Thing A is true, here's logical proof of 2+2=4." and "Nah. it isn't.".

[media]https://twitter.com/bdomenech/status/955613471579803648[/media] Sigh...thry sound like the UN

[QUOTE=Alice3173;53073293]People spent literally pages in the last thread explaining why you're wrong on this point. Give it up already.[/QUOTE] What if they are wrong? I mean, even the media are acknowledging that Democrats ought to take some of the responsibility for the shutdown [quote=Financial Times]On Friday the Senate fell 10 votes short of backing a four-week funding bill pushed by Republicans in Congress. After five Democrats and five Republicans switched sides, it was impossible to reach the 60 votes necessary to stop debate and hold a final vote. The shutdown is only the fourth in 25 years and the first to occur under circumstances where one party — the GOP in this case — controls both houses of Congress and the White House. Mr McConnell said he was determined to hold a final vote on the bill by 1am on Monday, the earliest time he could do so if Democrats continue to throw up procedural obstacles. Most Democrats refuse to support the bill because it does not do anything to protect the “Dreamers” — 800,000 people brought to the US illegally as children, who face deportation after Mr Trump cancelled a programme to shield them. The Dreamers have become a cause célèbre for Democrats, who want to legalise the status of most unauthorised immigrants and regard the young people — many of whom know no other country than the US — as most deserving of sympathy. Earlier in the day Mr Schumer said: “[Mr McConnell] crafts a partisan approach without consulting us, and then tries to blame us for not going along. That kind of behaviour would not pass in any part of civil society. It would be called bullying. We are happy and eager to compromise, but we will not be bullied.” “It’s the president’s and congressional Republican’s responsibility to govern. It’s their responsibility to keep the doors open and the lights on around here. But the Republican leadership can’t get a tumultuous president on board with anything.” Mr Trump tweeted: “This is the One Year Anniversary of my Presidency and the Democrats wanted to give me a nice present. #DemocratShutdown.” Mr Schumer said on the Senate floor that in a last-minute meeting with the president on Friday he had offered to make a deal by giving Mr Trump the US-Mexico border wall he wants. But Mick Mulvaney, the White House budget director, hit out at the Democrat, saying he had offered only a fraction of the necessary funding. “You have to ask at some point is it even profitable to continue negotiating with someone like that,” Mr Mulvaney said on Saturday. In response a spokesman for Mr Schumer tweeted: “Director Mulvaney was not in the lunch, and is not telling the truth.” At the same time a bipartisan group of about 18 senators were meeting to thrash out a compromise plan to present to party leaders on Sunday, according to Joe Manchin, a centrist Democratic senator from West Virginia. While the House of Representatives passed a stopgap funding measure on Thursday, the bill faced a much steeper climb in the Senate because Democrats calculated that they could use the issue as leverage to pass an immigration measure. Unless lawmakers can reach an agreement over the weekend that the president will support, some 750,000 federal employees will be furloughed, meaning they will not return to work on Monday and will not be paid for the period that they do not work. [b]The Democrats decided to take the political gamble of forcing a shutdown in the belief that Republicans would be blamed since they control Congress and the White House. They want to make sure they have as much leverage as possible to pressure Mr Trump and the Republicans into hammering out an acceptable deal to protect the Dreamers.[/b] Democrats in a few states that voted for Mr Trump in the 2016 election, such as Joe Manchin from West Virginia and Joe Donnelly from Indiana, backed the bill. But other Democrats who voted for a previous stop-gap measure, including Mark Warner and Tim Kaine of Virginia, voted to prevent a final vote on the short-term funding bill. The shutdown will close most agencies although law enforcement, airport security and other vital services will continue. Jim Mattis, US defence secretary, said it would have a serious impact on military operations and would also have a “huge morale impact”.[/quote] [url]https://www.ft.com/content/615d2ed8-fcfe-11e7-9b32-d7d59aace167[/url] [t]https://i0.wp.com/mediabiasfactcheck.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/leastbiased071.png?ssl=1[/t] [url]https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/financial-times/[/url] Ive never said that Democrats are 100% responsible for the shutdown. And I certainly don't believe it. I've been saying that both the Democrats and the Republicans are to blame.

[QUOTE=BF;53073397]What if they are wrong? I mean, even the media are acknowledging that Democrats ought to take some of the responsibility for the shutdown[/QUOTE] You've never bothered actually explaining why. You bring up a counterpoint, they explain why that counterpoint is invalid, you stop posting and wait for the next thread. [QUOTE]Ive never said that Democrats are 100% responsible for the shutdown. And I certainly don't believe it. I've been saying that both the Democrats and the Republicans are to blame.[/QUOTE] Yes but as people have pointed out to you over and over and over and over there is [I]no[/I] reality where the Democrats hold even half the responsibility, let alone a notable portion. For reasons already pointed out such as the Republicans going out of their way to set things up specifically for the Democrats to resist the Republicans. Again, shit that has already been repeatedly explained to you but which you've elected to ignore and continue spouting the same bullshit instead of acknowledging you were wrong.

[QUOTE=Alice3173;53073447]You've never bothered actually explaining why. You bring up a counterpoint, they explain why that counterpoint is invalid, you stop posting and wait for the next thread. Yes but as people have pointed out to you over and over and over and over there is [I]no[/I] reality where the Democrats hold even half the responsibility, let alone a notable portion. For reasons already pointed out such as the Republicans going out of their way to set things up specifically for the Democrats to resist the Republicans. Again, shit that has already been repeatedly explained to you but which you've elected to ignore and continue spouting the same bullshit instead of acknowledging you were wrong.[/QUOTE] Actually I've been the one explaining myself over and over again to little effect. But it has made a difference. Eg Tetracycline's post at 27, which I refuted at 29, and they haven't replied since. And I do give credit to Lambeth in post 31 for being open-minded and understanding my perspective. Also the reason why I "stop posting" is because I live in the other side of the world from the US, have a job and have a life. I don't live on Facepunch. And you speak of me ignoring things, but then you go and ignore the news article in my post which you've quoted?

[QUOTE=BF;53073474]Actually I've been the one explaining myself over and over again to little effect. But it has made a difference.[/QUOTE] Explaining yourself over and over again or repeating yourself over and over again despite what others are saying changing to address your attempts at shifting things to continue making you look right? Cause from what I saw it was the latter. [QUOTE]And you speak of me ignoring things, but then you go and ignore the news article in my post which you've quoted?[/QUOTE] Because there is no point addressing it. People have already addressed your points. You ignored them for it. So why would I waste my time and effort doing the same when I could go do something more useful with my time like beat my head against a wall until I lose consciousness?

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;53073121]Now that the government is shut down, [url]https://www.donotcall.gov/[/url] is also down And I've gotten 3 fucking illegal spam phone calls from "Allison with the warranty department" in the last 24 hours after weeks of no spam calls. My phone has been on the government do not call list for years. I wonder if these two things are related.[/QUOTE] I feel like this is just coincidence. Those phone calls are pretty much illegal anyway as far as I'm aware, they're massive scams and the companies are in no way legitimate. I've been on do not call as well and I used to constantly get the warranty calls. As a bit of advice: the thing that finally got them to stop calling me daily for years was for me to tell them "I don't own that car anymore" ;)

[QUOTE=BF;53073397]What if they are wrong? I mean, even the media are acknowledging that Democrats ought to take some of the responsibility for the shutdown [url]https://www.ft.com/content/615d2ed8-fcfe-11e7-9b32-d7d59aace167[/url] [t]https://i0.wp.com/mediabiasfactcheck.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/leastbiased071.png?ssl=1[/t] [url]https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/financial-times/[/url] Ive never said that Democrats are 100% responsible for the shutdown. And I certainly don't believe it. I've been saying that both the Democrats and the Republicans are to blame.[/QUOTE] Saying both are to blame is a fun centrist view which happily ignores the three majorities that the Republicans have and how from the get-go, they had incredibly costly dealbreakers before negotations could even begin. I am entirely tired of the Democrats getting blame for something they have basically no control over.

Collectively calm your tits BF is unwilling to face reality correctly, the rest of us know what's going down. Enough with the pages of pointless back and forth

[QUOTE=BF;53073397]What if they are wrong? I mean, even the media are acknowledging that Democrats ought to take some of the responsibility for the shutdown.[/QUOTE] 1 article != "the media" [QUOTE=SunsetTable;53073558]Saying both are to blame is a fun centrist view which happily ignores the three majorities that the Republicans have and how from the get-go, they had incredibly costly dealbreakers before negotations could even begin. I am entirely tired of the Democrats getting blame for something they have basically no control over.[/QUOTE] Also Trump shutting down the bipartisan deal that he promised to sign Also the Republicans letting CHIP expire [editline]22nd January 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=SebiWarrior;53073640]Collectively calm your tits BF is unwilling to face reality correctly, the rest of us know what's going down. Enough with the pages of pointless back and forth[/QUOTE] I think everyones calm so you don't have to ask anyone to "calm their tits" but I agree with the second part. BF blamed Democrats at least partly for the shut down then when Democrats tried to mitigate its effects by pushing through a short term plan to fund the military he called it "playing politics". There is no way Democrats can come out of this without looking like the bad guy to him and no one is going to convince him otherwise.

[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;53073640]Collectively calm your tits BF is unwilling to face reality correctly, the rest of us know what's going down. Enough with the pages of pointless back and forth[/QUOTE] I only engage in the hopes that people who might not know will look at this and realize that BF is in fact wrong and thus not make the same conclusions. That's all we can really do right now.

[QUOTE=BF;53073231]Thank you for this post. The Republicans have a disgusting history of abusing legislative processes, eg using riders, and yeah, the mess that was the tax plan. And I have called them out on it. But if the Democrats do anything like that, which they did by attaching immigration reform to a bill about preventing a government shutdown, I will call them out on it as well.[/QUOTE] but you said in the other thread that complaining about the republicans not funding chip months ago was pointless because it's in the past mixed messages man

Kick the can down the road for 3 week for 6 years of CHIP? Sounds like a win to me. If I'm understanding everything right, this just looks like the Dems have freed one of the GOP hostages and biggest bargaining chips(no pun intended.) This doesn't seem like something to be disappointed in Dems for.

[QUOTE=Helix Snake;53073121]Now that the government is shut down, [url]https://www.donotcall.gov/[/url] is also down And I've gotten 3 fucking illegal spam phone calls from "Allison with the warranty department" in the last 24 hours after weeks of no spam calls. My phone has been on the government do not call list for years. I wonder if these two things are related.[/QUOTE] I've been on the list for years and regularly receive calls from hotel rewards machines as well as Allison. [editline]22nd January 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53073186]You're literally ignoring a hostage situation to make the argument from a centrist point of view. The irony being any hostage situation isn't a centrist point or act.[/QUOTE] This is more akin to asking to buy a house, they say no, so you grab the neighbor's dog and put a gun to it's head and threaten to shoot it if they don't sell. The legality of DREAMers is not a budget item, the Dems did it as a poison pill to intentionally torpedo the process.

[QUOTE=Ridge;53073999]This is more akin to asking to buy a house, they say no, so you grab the neighbor's dog and put a gun to it's head and threaten to shoot it if they don't sell. The legality of DREAMers is not a budget item, the Dems did it as a poison pill to intentionally torpedo the process.[/QUOTE] Is the house CHIP in this metaphor? Cause the GOP refused to pay that bill until the last minute, endangering millions of lives. please update your metaphor to include this very relevant information if this is not the case.

[QUOTE=Cyan_Husky;53073843]Kick the can down the road for 3 week for 6 years of CHIP? Sounds like a win to me. If I'm understanding everything right, this just looks like the Dems have freed one of the GOP hostages and biggest bargaining chips(no pun intended.) This doesn't seem like something to be disappointed in Dems for.[/QUOTE] Yeah but they lost DACA for it, a victory as part of the GOP's war on foreigners.

[QUOTE=BF;53073218]Never said I was a centrist. I hate ideology. In the other thread, I said I was pragmatic. Like how the Democrat Senators were pragmatic to support the Republican financing bill today. [/QUOTE] No you are't. Democrats are [I]generally[/I] the pragmatic party. Republicans are the feelings party. Take, for instance, crime. Being tough on crime? Feels like a great way to reduce crime! Nope. If you could possibly be any more wrong about that, you would somehow generate a rip in space. Best way to reduce crime? Not treat criminals like shit. Even if you disagree with it morally, it is the pragmatic choice because it is proven to reduce crime. Abortion? It isn't a baby. It isn't a person. It is a lump of cells. Meanwhile the host to it is absolutely a human who should be given the option to choose what to do with her body. Immigration? WE BENEFIT FROM ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. They are some of the most law abiding citizens because they can be deported for almost any infraction. They don't make use of government services, but because companies automatically deduct taxes from payroll (that the undocumented workers can't get back because they can't file their taxes), they pay into a system that they almost universally cannot take out of. All the bullshit fear mongering about immigrants is just that: fear mongering. Shitting on the environment? In what fucking retard world is it smarter to burn through limited resources that pollute the atmosphere for energy when you can literally [I]harness the power of the sun[/I] to generate power? Unlimited power with almost zero consequence or resource consumption. Like how much paint do you have to eat before coal seems like a great idea? Democrats are the party of pragmatism. Republicans are all about being pack of special insecure snowflakes.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;53074062]Yeah but they lost DACA for it, a victory as part of the GOP's war on foreigners.[/QUOTE] For 3 weeks. If DACA isn't in the budget in 3 weeks, the government shuts down again.

[QUOTE=Cyan_Husky;53074108]For 3 weeks. If DACA isn't in the budget in 3 weeks, the government shuts down again.[/QUOTE] Hm... I wonder what's going to happen in three weeks since the Republicans in charge don't want DACA. (Note: The ones in charge, not the entire party.)

There is quite a lot of gloating on the GOP's part. They're really that myopic that they can't see they won this battle but the war is still going strong. In three weeks we will have to pass a spending deal, mcconnel has promised publicly to give the daca bill a chance, if its not attached to a spending bill we shut down. In march, we need to raise the debt ceiling, we cannot shut down over that, if we go over that cliff our economy crashes. Go ahead dance and gloat but its not going to make anything easier.