Team Trump: expect Trump to attack Mueller more directly
105 replies, posted
Do you not see that it's your mindset that's complacent and apathetic? This is potentially the largest constitutional crisis in our nation's history and a dire matter of national security. I know for whatever reason you turn up your nose at using the word "democracy" (lol) but this literally is a matter of preserving the sanctity of our democracy.
This isn't something that we should be taking lying down. This isn't something we should be docile about. Making ends meet is important, but so is doing everything in our power to let this investigation run its course. It doesn't matter if we have been in the past or if we've been ignored for what efforts we have shown, right now is when we should change that.
Protesting is one of the most important demonstrations of our freedom and we need to come together in solidarity of our values here and let Washington know that we're not ok with this. November is going to be a proverbial bloodbath if we continue to be ignored. That's important to recognize. Even if we can't get Trump out of office until 2020, we can at least get out and vote in people that will hold him accountable and won't let this affront to our nation's sovereignty continue.
Then again, i could be way too fucking optimistic again, like 2 years ago when I thought Trump was just a meme that would get old after a while.
Which would be sad because I'm usually known as a pessimist around friends.
If we don't act now, America is lost. Not sure how to say it any other way than that. If you don't see it, it's because you haven't been paying attention. If you think nobody else gives a shit about this, then I'd direct you to the following several posts, which will list every single city in which a mass protest has already been pre-planned. This is going to take about nine posts.
Christiansted
Harrogate
Ottawa
Anchorage
Cordova
Fairbanks
Juneau
Palmer
Sitka
Birmingham
Florence
Huntsville
Mobile
Tuscaloosa
Arkadelphia
Bentonville
Fayetteville
Fort Smith
Little Rock
Texarkana
Ajo
Flagstaff
Mesa
Payson
Phoenix
Prescott
Sedona
Show Low
Tucson
Winslow
Yuma
Alameda
Arcata
Auburn
Bakersfield
Beaumont
Berkeley
Bishop
Burbank
Calistoga
Cambria
Carlsbad
Castro Valley
Chico
Claremont
Colusa
Compton
El Cerrito
Escondido
Fort Bragg
Fresno
Grass Valley
Hanford
Healdsburg
Irvine
La Quinta
Laguna Beach
Lakeport
Lancaster
Livermore
Long Beach
Los Altos
Los Angeles
Monterey
Napa
Oakland
Pacifica
Palm Springs
Palo Alto
Palos Verdes
Pasadena
Petaluma
Pittsburg
Placerville
Portola Valley
Quincy
Ramona
Rancho Cucamonga
No, please don't speak for me.
I've been up in arms about this my whole waking life. This is an ideological obsession I've held for a long time, probably the only belief that's been held on to over the last 15 years of my life. I am not a child just out my teens, I'm an adult who's roamed this world as long, if not longer than you. I won't assume your age, don't assume mine.
I'm not really sure how to phrase my disgust with that attitude, and arrogance. You're on this really big trip right now acting like you're actually explaining things in a convincing manner from a position of authority. You're actually not.
It isn't a matter of Trump getting re-elected, or becoming a dictator, or whatever - it's more about the deeper implications of the possible interference into our democratic process. That's what Mueller and his team are investigating, and the results of that investigation must be allowed to come out. What the results of that investigation are and what Washington actually does about them is one thing, but the more important matter at hand is not having justice obstructed.
If Trump is able to put a halt to any investigation that calls him into question sets a terrible precedent for the power the Executive branch holds over the government and does nothing to assure us that our democracy is safe from outside influences and those who would wish to undermine it. Nobody should be above the law - including our leaders.
But what are you even arguing? Trump is a symptom of a worse problem sure I'll buy that but if you don't know how to treat a disease you treat the symptoms, you don't just roll over and die. Why should people just give up, you've not argued how doing nothing is a better course of action, or given any alternative.
So... We should ignore Trump and try to get to the root of the problem? Great idea. You know. What with the fact that Trump, and the current GOP, are MAJOR obstacles in the way of even doing that.
The important thing is you're above it all. You've demonstrated clearly how intelligent and wise you are, to know that there's no point to protesting because the system will get you anyways, man.
Nobody should try because people have failed in the past
The current President of the United States gets mad enough to broadcast angry tweets internationally when someone does an impression of him. If ever there was a politician that would not ignore your protests, Trump is it. Nobody is trying to save the world here, but if you think nothing will change ever, and nobody can help, then why even argue?
Cigarettes, I'm just going to come out and say it: your entire mindset on this is fucking morally repulsive and you should be ashamed.
This is the exact kind of learned helplessness that not only gets us stuck in these kinds of awful situations in the first place, but also compounds them once they've arrived. It's also lazy. If corruption is as fundamental as you say, then there's no point in fighting back or organizing politically; we should all just sit back and take it.
What you fail to realize is that millions of people who came before you, and millions of people at this very moment, have fought for and won your very ability to lazily criticize the system from a distance. Individuals can make a difference when they organize and engage with the political system - the only catch is that it takes a lot more effort than we think. As Washington said, perseverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages. I can't promise that we'll solve this crisis through aggressive political activism, but I know without a doubt that we won't if we throw in the towel and do nothing.
If politics isn't your thing, fine. But don't come in here trying to pass off your lazy cynicism as wisdom. It's pathetic and useless.
But you certainly seemed to be arguing that a protest would be pointless, or even counterproductive. That's what I am disagreeing with. That's the camp I put you in.
It doesn't matter if the people in power think they need to care about a protest. Either the people will make them care, or they will fail, more or less nothing will be lost that isn't at stake already. I don't think one protest will change the course of American democracy. But it might hold things steady for now.
America does need to wake up and do more then oust one man because he gamed a system that's just waiting to fail under the strain of partisanship. A lot of the world does. Scapegoating Trump, Russia, and social media won't fix our problems. But none of them can be ignored to continue their agendas either. Real things like voter reform are needed to start letting people break out of partisanship and the corruption of democratic systems. But you can't just give up on the present of focus on the future, otherwise you'll never get the chance to fix anything.
It's hard dealing with the anxiety of the potential shitstorm this can cause, and balancing a life along side it. I sure as hell want to see Trump and Co. get the boot as much as anyone here, i'm just worried people will go overboard and we get thrusted into a civil war or some fucked up thing. Idk how to feel about it anymore, it's all so convoluted. All I can say, is I hope it never comes to what we all fear.
Mueller being fired is essentially final confirmation that the POTUS is a Russian puppet who is blatantly corrupt and immune to consequences through our civic system of checks and balances; i.e. possibly the worst thing that has happened to the United States democracy ever. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that if anything will make people go out and protest, it will be the tacit admission of guilt from an aspiring fascist who the majority of the country does not support.
I just think, potentially disrupting the flow of business, like hospitals, people needing medicine, etc. isn't how to protest this. I don't expect that to go over well at all, and more often than not, they turn violent, and the message skewed. Is that what you mean by shutting down cities? Cause that sounds like it would cause more harm than good to me.
How do protests "Diminish what you're fighting for"? Did Martin Luther King Jr diminish the concept of de-segregation and acceptance when he protested?
All we can do today is try and regulate the large organizations that control this. Yes that's hard and may fail, but then you do it again. For some reason you're arguing it's best to just give up and accept it, and you'll make mockish remarks about the reasons and passion people have to care about these issues, and to make changes.
No isn't acknowledging the bigger problems. I believe the majority of us actually see those as the biggest of issues, the systemic, and fundamental problems that allowed such an event to occur are what needs to be changed. No one I know who is arguing against Trump doesn't also share the concern brought about by the very systemic nature of these problems.
I too am concerned about whether people will react enough. I know visting Twitter and seeing the storms of morons talking about him like he's a hero are disconcerting, but I don't know what it's like on the ground. Even casual republicans and devoted ones don't like him, but there is a large confusing(confused) base of people who support him. The concern many of us have on that subject is"how did this happen" and we're learning more and more.
It seems though, that your approach would never call for any inquiry. You said call it pessimism or defeatism or cynicism but it's none of those things.
It's just lazy.
Trump is and has been under insane amounts of suspicion for years now and literally every intel agency has said something is fucky but the controlling political party is doing everything it can to ignore, at the least, and actively interrupt the investigation. Now the only group of people who are doing anything at all to find out what the fuck is actually happening behind the political scene are being threatened with dissolution before any conclusion is made and this isn't the time to prepare for social backlash?
Some of ya'll are nutty.
It's true a mass protest like that may cause problems for people, maybe even harm, but that's the point. It's supposed to be disruptive, to get in the way of people's daily lives. You're not supposed to be able to ignore it and go about business as usual. The point is to highlight that things are clearly not as they should be, to make people angry, to get them out of their chairs and demand something be done.
I'd say that even if it motivates people to demand the protests be shut down with force, that's still better than apathy, because at least then they're paying attention.
Trump sounds like such a baby that requires someone to look after him. Making him play golf so he doesn't watch the news lmao
Protests might be really annoying, but they kind of have to be in order to work.
Change of this sort isn't easy. If it were it would just happen. If the checks and balances that are in place fail to address problems of this sort, then there's going to be periods of annoyance, discomfort, pain, and strife before things get better.
Well I mean, pick your poison. Do you inconvenience people in the name of preserving your country's very democracy? Or do you let the Orange in Chief continue making a mockery of our checks and balances? Which one do you legitimately think is worse for us in the long run? I'm going to go with the path that enables a wannabe dictator to remain in power.
You can, in good conscience, support it if given a good enough reason to support it.
The death of a man who can't reach a hospital quick enough (presuming that protestors wouldn't move aside for an Ambulance, which I imagine they would) is tragic.
The death of our democracy itself, replaced by an autocracy of oligarchs, is beyond tragic. I'm not saying 'my emotions will be so hurt to see America die'. I'm saying 'that one man who died in an ambulance does not equalize the weight of the deaths that are certain to follow from an autocratic oligarchy whose sole motivation is obtaining and keeping power'.
If people want to fight this, they should just flood Washington, try to storm the whitehouse, make the people who are actually at fault realize the shitstorm they caused. Not impede peoples lives. I definitely think we should fight this, but lets be smart about it and not make ourselves look like war mongers and potentially cause bigger problems for ourselves.
You will be painted war mongers no matter where you protest. With this government if you are not 'for Trump' then you are 'against Trump'.
Additionally, the source of the President's immunity to being punished for his constitutional sins derives from the Republicans who enable him. They enable him because their states are running OK and they feel comfortable in their seats. Rattling their seats of power will rattle their support of Trump. It is literally that simple.
Also, there can be few 'bigger problems' than a President who not only refuses to execute the law but refuses to be bound by the law. There is a word for such a political entity and that word is Dictator.
None of this is "that simple". It's so easy for these things to get blown out of control and cause more issues. People getting hurt, people taking advantage of the situation and looting, people dying because of the chaos. Makes me anxious thinking about it.
It is literally that simple and you are being very short sighted. Let's say we don't protest against Trump firing the Special Prosecutor and nobody in Congress resuming his investigation or releasing the results of his investigation. At that exact point you have suspended the rule of law - this is not hyperbole.
If you're concerned about 'people getting hurt and dying' then you should be far more concerned about allowing Trump to remain in power than worrying about a single week of protest to effect mass change and prevent mass harm. You are dealing with a man who wants anyone he suspects as as drug dealer to be gunned down in the street - whose thoughts on 'how to deal with enemies' include enthusiastic permittance of torture and the murder of the families who support those enemies.
If you knew that next week Trump would go full Duterte and that next month we would be in a similar state as the Phillipines would you protest some harm now?
Every time I read stuff like this, I just have to say
Go look at a history book dude. Don't be ignorant. Getting people upset and getting in their way is the only way things change. Apathy is a monster we all carry around, and we have to overcome it.
If I knew he would go full on hitler and start doing all of that, yes I would be for it. But we don't know. Right now he just seems like a bumbling idiot with horrible ideas, and everyone in here is ready to jump to arms over something we have no idea is going to happen, really it just sounds like inciting violence which I thought FP was strongly against. Do you guys really want that shit? I'm sure we all want this to be solved as peacefully as possible, but with how hot the climate is in this country, you know shit will hit the fan sooner than later. IDK about you guys, but I don't want to see a civil war over this fucking orange twat, that's prob what he wants.
So, in the event that he dismisses the special prosecuter, and he's effectively dismantled the rule of law, and stepped in as a dictator, your opinion is we should all do nothing because that's better.
Fuck no.
I don't like violence.
I like a President who refuses to execute or be bound by the law even less.
If you permit a President to continue to hold his seat after he has demonstrated that he no longer cares to be held accountable to the people underneath him then you are looking at two possible futures.
In one we have a civil war anyway.
In the other we have Hitler's Germany - if not delivered by Trump then by whoever follows him.
Alright, i'm sure you all will be singing the same tune when people you know start getting trampled on and shit over the chaos that will insue. I'm not saying do nothing, but take a step back and put away your pitchforks for a min and think rationally. I thought this was what people were afraid of happening in the country. I guess i'm just afraid shit will go south and we all end up in a worse situation.
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