Gaza protests go violent, 15 Palestinians dead; Israeli minister refuses inquiry - Polidicks

Labour has a bad history of antisemitism but I don't think Corbyn is an antisemite

Oh yeah, no denying that there's certainly anti-Semitic elements inside the party that occasionally show their power level. This appears to be true of most of our parties over here though...strangely everyone but the Tories are expected to expunge these people but Boris Johnson can get away with outright racist remarks and still be our foreign secretary (the man probably can't even tie his own shoes, even with slip ons!)

Maybe blame the Palestinians for having governments that support terrorist attacks? No one important in Israel refers to Palestinians as sand people, the vast majority of Palestinians just want to have a normal life just like anyone else. The seder that Corbyn went to was not religious in any way, it was a secular seder run by an ethnic Jewish group which act like the worst kind of animals to the point where I don't even have words to describe how disgusted I am by them. Corbyn was also in an anti semitic facebook group and Labour has anti semitic scandals almost monthly. When there are anti semitic scandals popping up that often in a party, it's natural to suspect the party's leader.

Okay, how about this: It's fucked up that Israel is blockading the Gaza strip, but what are the alternatives? Hamas is an Islamic militia that has taken over the Gaza strip by force AFTER Israel unilaterally retreated from the Gaza strip and dismantled literally all settlements there and is so belligerent they are unable to reconcile even with the Palestinian Authority or their former allies in Egypt, let alone with Israel. In fact, just like with the last war in Gaza, this conflict stems from Hamas' desperation. They're isolated, they're not getting the funding they were used to in the past from Arab nations and especially from the Palestinian Authority which stopped paying for stuff like Hamas salaries and power bought from Israel due to Hamas's refusal to disarm and hand back control of the strip. Israel has also started to methodically dismantle Hamas' tunnels into Israel, cutting off their last remaining ace against Israel after Iron Dome took rocket attacks off the table. Just like last time Hamas needs a conflict with Israel, with lots of televised wounded and killed to distract Gazans from Hamas' own shitty tyrannical rule and maybe get some sympathy funds from Qatar and Turkey. But for that to Happen Hamas needs to get Israel to kill people. So they made it perfectly clear the goal is to take down the border fences and get as many people as possible across. And they made it clear they're going to ignore Israel's warning that the border will be protected with lethal force. And again: before this Hamas was threatening to penetrate Israel with tunnels. And before that by sea. Hamas doesn't want to penetrate Israel for the sake of peaceful protest. When Hamas gets people into Israel they kill Israelis. Do you really think Hamas isn't trying to get gunmen into Israel during the demonstrations right now? Because the IDF says otherwise. And that's not including multiple attempts to throw bombs or plant IEDs along the fence that the army claims they prevented. Hell, even Hamas admits some of the casualties are their own men. The IDF of course claims most of them are. Should you believe them? At the very least, should you believe them as much as you believe Hamas reports? The fact is Israel can't let Gazans take down the border, because that would let Hamas into Israel and Hamas kills Israelis. So the IDF uses water cannons, and tear gas, and if someone still insists of running right up to the fence and trying to breech it they get fucking shot. They aim for the legs, supposedly. But they still shoot you if you make it to the fence and then run back, because the point is stay the fuck away from the fence. Is that fucked up? YES. IT IS FUCKED UP THAT ISRAELI SNIPERS ARE SHOOTING PEOPLE WITH BULLETS JUST FOR GETTING CLOSE TO THE BORDER. It is also fucked up that Hamas is sending people to do it knowing they will get fucking shot. At least they're not sending kids this time. Mostly. It is fucked up that Hamas refuses to fucking reconcile with Fatah already and give the people of Gaza a break from Israel and Egypt and their own shitty selves. It is fucked up that the Israeli government is refusing to try anything that might help the people of Gaza and maybe give them less incentive to support Hamas, and insists on just allowing them the bare minimum to stay marginally alive, as if that's not going to blow up in everyone's faces every year or so. It's not like thy have anywhere else to go. EVERYTHING HERE IS FUCKED UP.

just live a normal life lol but also never step out of the open air prison you were born in. Sounds like one hell of a life. Also I can't believed you're pulling the "good jew bad jew" book out of the tory book, it's like last week all over again where all murdoch outlets were crucifying Corbyn for meeting up with Jewdas. Point taken, maybe Palestine IS the world capital of antisemitism like you claim it is. Israel is a close second though.

wow israel is apparently antisemitic because no reason? I'm disgusted by Jewdas and organizations like it because they actively want to harm other jews by either having Israel compromise its security or have israel gone all together because they want to be smug ironic fucks also, israel has only had gaza under blockade since about 2007 iirc, Gaza wasn't an "open air prison" until Hamas started attacking Israel after Israel withdrew from Gaza what's really annoying about arguing with people on here about this topic is that people dont do much research at all and just rely on gut feelings about this conflict, plus they don't actually understand what it's like to have a constant security threat very close to home so they judge from their safe homes in the US/Europe/etc while not having to worry about their possibly being hurt in any way by genocidal groups that will not negotiate.

Okay you're gonna have to run "the worst kind of animals" past me a bit here because so far, from all my research into Jewdas they just seem like a bunch of noisy boys who really fucking hate the idea of a Jewish state of any sort existing (and it can be assumed any form of religious state). They spend a fair bit of their time protest pro-Israel events and being general nuisances as that's what radicals tend to do. Being radicals they don't exactly take their events super seriously at all, and their site is a satirical mess that I honestly cannot parse because it relies on a fair bit of Jewish culture. There's obviously accusations of anti-Semitism against them, and I'd honestly be surprised if they didn't fuck around with anti-Semitic imagery at the events to get a reaction. But they are still Jews. Far-left Jews, but Jews none the less. Where's this "animalistic" behaviour that you "can't even put into words"? Why are so many pro-Israel people on the Internet such god damned drama queens would probably make a more important question. As for the event Corbyn attended, it was a Passover Seder, a primarily Jewish event. It may not have required him to be a practising Jew or take part in any religious ceremonies, but it's still something quite specific to Judaism, especially in this context, and contains a fair few ceremonies itself.

I actually went to a passover seder last week and it was quite nice. There were two muslims there and I was (I think) the only atheist there. The guy hosting it is one of the most progressive guys I've ever met. Was still at it's core, a jewish holiday, we were celebrating jewish culture and eating much of the traditional jewish food.

IDF probing video showing soldier cheering as sniper hits Palestinian Two snipers are heard discussing who was on which Palestinian, following which a single shot is heard and one Palestinian is seen falling to the ground, with dozens of others immediately converging on him. "Wow, what a video! YES! Son of a b****," one of the soldiers is heard exclaiming. Another is heard commenting that "Someone was hit in the head." At first glance, it appears the video was filmed by a soldier who wasn't shooting, but was alongside the snipers who were. One soldier is heard whispering the cameraman "Film it, film it," with the filming soldier commenting "what a legendary video." The video's release comes after more than a week of daily protests by Palestinians at the Gaza-Israel border in which 30 Gazans have been shot dead. Death count up to 30.

Which Haggadah did you use? Who said ma nishtana? If you think that the Seder is to celebrate Jewish culture and to eat Jewish food then you missed the whole point of the seder

A Freedom Haggadah. I can't find a copy online unfortunately. There was a rabbi who flew in to do a couple of seders in town. Sorry! it was my first passover ever despite celebrating Hanukkah dozens of times as a kid. My dad never liked the non-Hanukkah holidays, for whatever reason.

Nothing to apologise for. Watch out for social justice Haggadahs like the one you used, they aren't fit for toliet paper. For example' Search, and inquire, what Laban, the Syrian intended to do to our father Jacob; for Pharaoh decreed the destruction of the males only; but Laban intended to root out the whole; as it is said: "A Syrian had nearly caused my father to perish, and he went down into Egypt and sojourned there with few persons, and there became a great, mighty, and populous nation." Search further, and inquire, what our own fathers Moses and Joshua intended to do to our brothers the Canaanites, for as is said, "We took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed every city, the men, and the women, and the little ones; we left none remaining." Search still further and inquire in the last generation, what Hitler intended to do; for once again he intended to destroy all Israel and enslave Mankind. Moses is the holiest prophet in Judaism + Joshua is his handpicked heir and they are being compared to Hitler? The conquest of Canaan was also not a genocide, Canaanites were allowed to stay if they agreed to follow the 7 noahide laws. It also shows the ignorance of the author because there is a genocidal commandment in the Torah to kill all amalekites. That's a much more apt Hitler comparison. Their version of daienu is hilarious though, completely inverts the original theme of thankfulness and demanding more and more.

I don't like the implication that the only proper Haggadahs are conservative ones. People can experience traditions and holidays in whatever way they wish.

I'm citing from the Haggadah you used. Your way of thinking is disagreed with by literally every Jewish ethnicity/religious tradition except by the Ashkenazi conservative/reform sects. Everyone else's beliefs can be summarized as "the synagogue I don't go to is Orthodox", Orthodoxy is normative but if you don't want to be Orthodox, you just accept that you're doing the wrong thing. What reforms/conservatives do is set the bar low and then congratulate themselves for making the bar when the real bar is miles above them.

The ones I found online do not match up with what I experienced at all.

I strongly disagree with Svinnik here. Like all traditions, Passover is what you make of it. For some it's about upholding the religious traditions in the strictest of ways, reading through the entire Haggada, eating the vile holiday food (gefilte fish *hurk*) and forcing the young ones to do the songs. For others it's about getting together with the family, exchanging gifts, drinking wine and getting to the food part as fast as possible. Or anywhere it between. Whatever works for you. No one gets to tell you what's a REAL Passover in much the same way no one gets to decide whose a REAL Jew.

I think we're going to end up running in circles with this argument. I'm speaking from a dati point of view. About you saying that the food at the Seder is shit, try to get invited to a Sephardi/Mizrahi Seder instead of going to an Ashkenazi one, Foodwise, Ashkenazim tend to think that because their ancestors ate certain food in the ghettos/shetls to survive because they were so poor, they should eat the same food despite it being eaten for survival instead of for pleasure. Mizrahim/Sephardim can also eat kitniyot which allows them to cook more diverse foods during pesach.

Being that we are heathens with no respect to tradition we don't limit ourselves to just Ashkenazi food, or even to just Kosher food. Also a lot of it is usually vegan, because a lot of my family is. Gefilte fish is a crime against nature and God though. Seriously. Bleh.

Thank you. I'm tired of people saying that you need to practice the religion in this way and follow all words out of whatever book you read. That shit just invites fundamentalism.

I absolutely love how this has turned into a Jewish food debate, it's so fitting.

Better to discuss jewish food than bicker about politics tbh

The proper way to do it is to bicker about politics while eating the Jewish food.

isnt that just the weekly shabbat dinner though