Security troops on US nuclear missile base took LSD
71 replies, posted
I don’t believe it really happens, and I’d need way more evidence to go on. People have tried to discredit LSD with many false tales over the years.
LSD flashbacks are just a myth. It is unfortunate that people in general lack a great deal of understanding surrounding psychedelics and illicit substances in general (such as marijuana being non-addictive or that unrefined opium is as dangerous as heroin, etc).
Then they aren't fit to be in missile command.
[citation needed]
if you're going to say and claim that, provide where you're finding this information from
one can also theorise that you know, if you abuse a drug there may be side effects, just like alcohol. If you're a total junkie taking LSD on an incredibly frequent basis, yeah it could fuck you up, just with every other chemical that's abused. Would that necessarily be the same for infrequent, irregular users?
I wish you would share such research that you've so clearly done - research that I, a former actual doctor just couldn't understand - and such documentation to back up your false and misleading claims. Can you demonstrate the four seconds Google search to prove all this?
This isn’t true and there is no research to back it. From what I understand LSD ‘flashbacks’ are actually individuals experiencing actual psychosis later in life. Psychedelics (most drugs actually) can trigger latent or worsen minor mental health issues and this is where the link comes from.
Lets see...
We have a fun meta analysis. These are pretty good usually.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S037687160200306X?_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_origin=gateway&_docanchor=&md5=b8429449ccfc9c30159a5f9aeaa92ffb&ccp=y
Then we have an assortment of other bits and bobs here from various journals:
https://search.proquest.com/openview/74f6493b15c6c37ef264efdfac5ac51c/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=47717
http://www.ochsnerjournal.org/doi/abs/10.1043/1524-5012(2007)7%5B37:NOLFST%5D2.0.CO%3B2?code=occl-site
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J069v18n02_06
https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(06)80189-7/fulltext
It keeps going from there.
They all follow a theme: Flashbacks are a thing, but we don't know how they work and have trouble figuring it out because you can't really do a proper study like this on humans anymore. We have found evidence that some things can make them more common, but we don't have any evidence that those things are necessary for it to occur.
There's a Zero Tolerance policy on drugs on the military, regardless if you're not on duty that day because you are on a 24/7 "on call" if anything were to happen, so technically you're always on duty.
So.. let's look at your links
Your first link from Drug & Alcohol dependence states that
We located and analyzed 20 quantitative studies between 1955 and 2001 examining this phenomenon. However, many of these studies were performed before operational criteria for HPPD were published in DSM-III-R, so they are difficult to interpret in the light of current diagnostic criteria. Overall, current knowledge of HPPD remains very limited.
Although it may be difficult to collect large samples of HPPD cases, further studies are critically needed to augment the meager data presently available regarding the prevalence, etiology, and treatment of HPPD."
Oschner Journal's link describes one patient who experienced flashbacks when under a particular drug ( SSRIs). Impact factor of ~0.12 at time of publication. Low impact factor implies that journal may not be particularly credible or groundbreaking.
Journal of Addictive Diseases is literally talking about flashbacks experienced by patients in an alcoholic recovery clinic. Quoting the abstract "Findings indicate a statistically significant relationship between number of doses and incidence of flashbacks." This is literally enforcing my previous statement of "abusers of the drug may be subject to damage".
Journal of Pediatrics again, literally just going to quote their abstract
Two adolescents with a long history of abuse of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) and symptoms consistent with major depressive disorder, on initiation of antidepressant therapy with selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor agents, had the new onset or worsening of LSD flashback syndrome. The similarity in neuroreceptor physiology for both LSD and serotonin suggests that the LSD flashback syndrome may be induced by these drugs in patients with a history of LSD abuse
Again, literally "history of LSD abuse" and also onset due to taking other drugs, such as the SSRIs stated in Oschner's journal.
So yeah, as we've literally said, flashbacks may be a thing but is only present in people who completely abuse the drug, and seems to be noticeable in those abusing other drugs or on medication as a side effect. Don't really see how any of these links are meant to back up your original claim that it's unpredictable and the BS claim that it's stored in fat cells.
LSD can cause flashbacks and stays in the system even after it has left the blood. Druggies don't wanna believe it be the way it be but it do.
Crystal Structure of an LSD-Bound Human Serotonin Receptor
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(16)31749-4?_returnURL=https%3A%2F%2Flinkinghub.elsevier.com%2Fretrieve%2Fpii%2FS0092867416317494%3Fshowall%3Dtrue
https://journals.lww.com/psychopharmacology/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=1996&issue=06000&article=00008&type=abstract
Clonazepam treatment of lysergic acid diethylamide
Have any of you two actually tried LSD? Have you ever actually experienced these so-called flashbacks?
I have. The few times I have experienced flashbacks were after the first couple of times I tried LSD, usually the day after or the day following that.
In most of these cases, the flashbacks were triggered either by smoking weed (itself a mild quasi-psychedelic) or by listening to a song that I had also listened to during the trip.
In all of these cases, the effects lasted no longer than 10 minutes and didn't even come close to the intensity of a full-on acid trip. All of my experiences with acid flashbacks could be
compared more to a treshold dose of DMT than acid. And I've never experienced them again in the years following.
It was literally just brighter colours, a tiny little bit of visual drifting at most and a hint of psychedelic headspace. Mild, short-lasted and generally inconsequential.
But drugs affect people differently and this is only my anecdotal experience. But it doesn't matter because when we are discussing perceptional phenomena, you might as well throw
objectivity out of the window. How can you even prescribe an objective, empirical standard to subjective experiences? Neurochemistry and pharmacology can only tell you how chemicals
interact with other chemicals in your brain, not what the actual experience feels like.
Did you have a point with any of that rambling? I mean the best I could get is the experience of 1 person is representative of everyone who has used lsd which is well stupid.
First paper is literally just a study of the structure of LSD when bound with a seratonin receptor. Absolutely nothing on HPPD.
Second paper states that Risperidone should not be used
Third paper states that through trials, clonazepam was a useful treatment for those with HPPD.
To note is that HPPD is not necessarily caused by LSD, and that this can occur just like any other disorder or disease by mutation, chance etc. All that is currently known is that drug use can make symptoms worse, but not known to necessarily be the cause of the disorder.
LSD-induced Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder treated with clonazepam: .
Clonazepam treatment of lysergic acid diethylamide
"One unique characteristic of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) and
LSD-like substances is the recurrence of some of the symptoms which
appeared during the intoxication after the immediate effect of the
hallucinogen has worn off. "
Flashback and Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder
People really don't wanna accept that drugs aren't the best thing for you.
Hello, can you read?
I'm not stating that drugs are good for you, but I'm counteracting the claim that LSD will give you flashbacks and be stored in fat cells, etc.
The abstract you quote literally says on the next line "This recurring syndrome, mainly visual, has not been clearly understood, appreciated or distinguished from other clinical entities by clinicians." Yes, abusers of LSD as stated in previous abstracts of papers experience this - and I am not defending abusers of LSD - but I do not agree with the claim that LSD is guaranteed to give you flashbacks afterwards.
Of course its not guaranteed, noone has ever said it was guaranteed. Quote them if you can find anyone saying that please.
If flashbacks actually had the potential to be anything like the intensity of actual trips, enough to be a concern, you'd see way more anecdotal reports of it.
LSD is among the most infamous psychelics in the world, and thousands of trip reports and post-trip reports are available online.
Anyone who's concerned about acid flashbacks have most likely never tried any psychedelic and base their concerns mostly on old myths.
And also HPPD is not the same as a flashback. HPPD is purely visual distortion with no headspace.
HPPD isn't even that bad, shit just sometimes has more visual snow, certain patterns look especially strange, and if i look at a blank wall long enough it can kind of look like it is moving.
So it's easier to pick up some acid on a nuclear missile site than anywhere in my town. Just my luck.
I have no problem accepting drugs aren't the best thing for a person.
I don't believe them having some cost to you, means they should be banned or disregarded.
I've expressed an opinion of caution through out the thread, so I treat them with respect. I think most people do. I think people are just disputing your view as it's over the top.
just citing papers doesn't mean shit if you don't even bother to read them or even the fucking abstract to check whether they support your point in the first place
So, now that we've all pasted our various sources about LSd, and maybe even read them, can we finally agree that LSD does not have permanent effects when used correctly? Can we agree that there's absolutely zero evidence that LSD causes flashbacks? It's extremely basic science. The Elimination Half-Life of LSD is ~3.6 hours, and the duration of effects, depending on dose, are ~8-12 hours. LSD has even been clinically used to treat depression, anxiety, and various additions with very promising results.
This senseless, "oh my god! it's a drug? it's bad!" mindset is absolutely toxic and anti-progress. how do you think we learn to treat illness? we mostly use drugs.
Woke up from a dream, closed my eyes and had a pretty intense visual trip that lasted about 5 minutes. I was fucking wrong LSD flashbacks are real (either that or it was DMT).
You were still dreaming, it's that simple
These are called hypnopompic hallucinations and less accurately hypnagogic hallucinations.
They're not related to LSD nor flashbacks.
Anyone who awakens abruptly during ongoing REM sleep period will experience them, especially if they remained motionless after waking up. By staying motionless you might even enter Sleep paralysis or have full-blown Lucid dream.
I'm pretty hardline pro LSD here but HPPD is certainly a thing. A benign thing at least for me, but a thing. Others have it far worse and I can imagine some people find it distressing.
It's a thing, yes, an extremely rare thing which has never been experimentally linked to LSD. I supplied an article on it earlier in the thread.
There's equal scientific evidence of HPPD being caused by LSD as there is psilocybin, marijuana edibles, DMT, DXM Hbr, and so on - that amount of evidence being nearly zero.
I just want to reiterate that I'm not trying to say that LSD is a completely harmless drug and that all drugs are totally safe etc.
I was trying to back up my point that "if this was alcohol nobody would've bat an eyelid". This was refuted by saying "but LSD will give you flashbacks" and I retorted saying the evidence is at best questionable without any real scientific trials or studies, even the ones attempted to be used as evidence here even state in the papers that HPPD is not well understood.
Drugs can be dangerous, they can be bad, but the societal normalisation of Alcohol (again, very, very clear evidence of serious and significant harm that it can do you) compared to people freaking out and making false claims with another, less harmful drug is just ridiculous. This is a complete non-story and made me re-realise how ignorant ( not in a malicious way ) people can be on drugs as a whole.
I don't think you understand how the military works.
That's not good enough for missile command.
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