• Israel Sniper Killed Voluteer Female Medic, 100 Protesters Wounded
    322 replies, posted
nice job comparing a riot buffer to a border wall, two totally different scenarios. Also extremely nice strawman there brah, where did I say there doesn't need to be a buffer zone? Last I checked, I said a 300M buffer zone is idiotic for a riot and is justifying use of deadly force due to the distance of said zone. A buffer zone of 150 would easily allow non lethal measure be deployed and save lives while keeping protesters back. But please, post more border wall nonsense when the topic is a mass protest and riot.
1) I didn't say they should shoot ever medic. I said that Israel can't take medic uniforms at face value like you can in other military conflicts. 2) I didn't say every protester was a hamas agent. I said that the "protestors," as a unified group, did horrific things in the past, which they did. There are enough Hamas agents and Hamas sympathisers to be relevant. You are incapable of treating people with fairness.
Are you high? can you for once read context and discuss it without shitting out nonsense? you had 50+ confirmed hamas miliants disguising as protestors who could have crossed the border and disappeared within Israel's border. Now read this out loud: Do i need to remind you what happened last time Hamas operators crossed into Israel? 3 civilians kidnapped and a whole god damn war with more palestinian deaths than this shitty protest. For fucks sake get your head out of your ass and stop treating it like a city protest that should be met with water cannons and batons. Hamas literally funds free buses that take Palestinians to the protests and even pay them to get shot, why aren't you saying anything about them?
Usually, using "we all know" as a person who doesn't either closely follow the conflict daily or does so from a single source, does little to convince people of your argument. You are being really arrogant in your presupposition of what "Israel", whatever you mean by this term, wants, and just assume every other Israeli in this thread disagrees with you because they're naive and stupid and misinformed, and not because they have first-hand experience that very clearly contradicts what you are saying. This post will probably not make you reconsider your certainty on the subject, but I at least hope others who might read this will, or if not - might at least change the way you approach this subject in speech. If you people really do care about this conflict and have concerns about the damages and deaths and about possible solutions, they have every possible duty to read up on the complexities of this conflict: what solutions were offered and which have failed; which action is done for which official reason - and how this flies in the face of reality; which action is reported on one side but not on another; Who ordered what, and in what way does this interplay with their personal political careers. These things are all important to know to mount effective condemnation and frankly justified outrage against the actions of state actors such as Israel, so that one can pin-point exact parties to blame and solutions to what they cause. Blanket condemnations of some vague "Israel", using the term "they" (and allusions to a conspiracy of hidden genocide, combined with thinly-veiled accusations (this is not directed at you) that anyone disagreeing is probably paid by JIDF) actively plays into the manipulation by populists and fear-spinning politicians over here, indeed, into the hands of people like Bibi. If you care about what happens, educate yourself enough so your condemnations and calls to action are as specific as possible, as all this can easily be avoided by wording things more specifically. I know this is far removed from you and as far as you're concerned you owe nobody nothing and call a spade a spade, but please, at least try. It's we who have to deal with this political fallout - people here vote more out of fear than out of conviction, and even their convictions are rooted in trauma. They don't need more words to spin as fuel for the flame of the persecution complex. I'm sorry if this post comes off as dramatic, but I can't stress this point enough and it seems any attempt by me to do so in my posts is just flat out ignored.
Maybe, you know, medic stuff? Him being part of Hamas doesn't necessarily mean he was engaged in combat when he was killed. According to the Canadian's testimony, he was tending to people at the time of his death, and neither of the two were anywhere near the border. But thanks for thoroughly ignoring my post and rehashing the same dumb points. I'm sure your little pictures justify the shooting of all three medics along with the general harassment and threats made by Israeli forces towards medical personnel. Ah yes, if a medic is running towards the one area where people are getting shot at and bleeding out that obviously means he's coming in to slaughter some Israelis. It couldn't possibly be that they're trying to go and tend to those people's wounds so that they don't fucking die. That essentially amounts to killing anybody who enters the buffer zone. Doing a great goddamn job at using minimal amounts of violence there.
I totallu agree. Anybody that is unable to understand and accept Israel's actions in view of 'complexity' of the matter can only be one of the below: 1) Uneducated AKA stupid 2) Terrorist supporter 3) Anti semitic
Seriously? If you don't agree with me, you're retarded, a terrorist or an nazi? Are you trying to win a game of political shitposting bingo or what?
Yes, it is also imperative that we be paralyzed by the weight of the complexity of the dilemma, and kept out mouth shut, because Israel deserve to do what they do after all the suffering they went through. They deserve everything; your home, your country, your recognition.
The point is that it's okay to have an opinion but at the very least study the conflict and its history instead of shitposting like you are right now. ALSO consider the fact that some of the israeli posters here experienced the conflict first hand, have served/currently serving in the army and basically live here. I mean seriously a few pages back people considered Israel as a US colony and some other stupid
EDITED
You don't get to claim that you're trying to minimize civilian casualties if you adopt a policy of shooting clearly unarmed, clearly identified medics. Gunning down people for crossing an arbitrary line is a heinous crime and you are still morally culpable for killing innocents. You don't kill people unless they present a clear identified threat. And if you're not allowing medics into the buffer zone then the responsibility is on you to render medical attention to this woman people. Is the Israeli government doing that? You say not every protester is a Hamas agent, then in the very next sentence you proceed to generalize them as a group of violent savages. You very clearly don't consider this a legitimate protest nor do you give a fuck about the real grievances that the Palestinians have. The vast majority of the actors involved here are peaceful demonstrators protesting the right to return to their ancestral homeland. Again, it is morally indefensible to use terrorism as an excuse for such heavy handed tactics against a group of largely peaceful, unarmed protesters. Amnesty International and the UN agrees with me.
all he asked was that you do your due diligence with research instead of posting from a place of ignorance, is that too much to ask?
I totally agree. Anybody that is unable to understand and accept Israel's actions in view of 'complexity' of the matter can only be one of the below: 1) Ignorant AKA Uneducated AKA stupid [EDITED: Added in view of first hand opinion by Israel victim] 2) Terrorist supporters 3) Anti semitics 4) Shitposter [EDITED: Added, in view of first hand opinion by an Israeli victim]
jfc imagine throwing a tantrum over being asked to do some research about a topic you have an opinion about lmao you can have any opinion you want about israel, all that's being asked is that you look deeper than the headlines and actually try to learn something about the conflict
I would ask you how did you so confidently come to the conclusion that people here knows nothing about the masacre, but I also understand that nobody that disagree with Israel ever knows anything about the conflict, so I digress.
And im saying with a buffer of 150 meters you can use things you said that fail to reach 300m like water cannons or rubber bullets. Multiple people have pointed out that most of the people being shot are far away from your already ridiculous border line, such as the canadian. The only one who is posting in pure ignorance is the person saying they cannot use non lethal gadgets because of the 300m buffer zone, but then cant comprehend why a smaller zone to use said gadgets is impossible. You keep posting cherry picked propaganda and videos without acknowledging you accidentally pointed out why they are shooting instead of stunning. Theres piles of 3rd party sources showing the horrid shit israel is doing, and the best you can argue is groups of 1-5 people being terrorists over thousands wounded. When you have lists of agencies showing and charging your country for doing extremely inhumane acts, maybe you should realize why such charges are brought up. Or the very least realize why people in this thread are pissed at israel.
because if you actually knew anything or listened to what the Palestinians actually have to say, they are very clear about this being a protest about 70 years since the Nakba, there's a reason that it's called the March of Return. The protests started way before the embassy opened and they have little to nothing to do with the embassy being opened. You also said that Israel instigated Trump to move the embassy to Jerusalem, that was mostly trump's doing, not israel's doing.
Do Israelis need to die so you can prove your point? this just shows how little you care about people's lives. if it wasnt for that fence and the IDF, the death toll would reach higher than now and families would be slaughtered in their own houses by a bunch of maniacs with cleavers and knifes, public bus lines will be blown up with high level of casualties and public places like schools and cafes will be places of massacares. You have no idea how life was in Israel before the blockade came to effect and there is no reason in hell to let one of these "peaceful" protestors cross it. If you think i'd let a bunch of angry protestors cross into a kibbutz with young families so they can "protest" there then thank god we don't have people like you who make these decisions who abandon the safety of innocent people. The numbers are unfortuneate, the killing of the medics is not justified and should be investigated but you comparing the number of deaths is disgusting.
What I'm saying is that the buffer of 150m is too dangerous to Israel in terms of risking a border breach to be worth the trade off of using rubber bullets/water cannons. I understand why people are pissed at Israel, I genuinely believe that Israel is doing the best it can in terms of stopping unnecessary deaths/casualties and that it's a lose lose situation. I'm not happy that the Israelis shot that Canadian medic and that Palestinan nurse and I want an accounting for that from the IDF. However, the news is not reporting the full story. Hamas terrorists are shooting at Israel and throwing grenades at the Israelis, they are shooting mortars and rockets at Israel trying to get civilian casualties, and they are flying molotov cocktail kites to set the Israeli south on fire during the dry season. Their methods primarily target civilians but their methods dont make international news, it's only when Israel kills Hamas/Islamic Jihad terrorists posing as protesters (there have been innocents killed though but maybe 8 at max), that the media pays attention.
Imagine being so brainwashed you believe the IDF is doing the right thing. Regardless of whether the medics were Hamas or not, and they weren't, they were still non-combatant medics. I hope NATO steps in and assfucks the IDF over the indiscriminate shooting at protestors. It's fucked up that they keep getting away with it. There's countless other options to solve these protests. Using live ammo doesn't even make sense. "How can we convince these people we're not actually the bad guys?""Oh I know, lets shoot them"
imagine being so ignorant that you dont know that the IDF isnt part of NATO and that NATO doesn't self police anyway as shown by Turkey's campaign of killing any kurds they can find by accusing them all of being PKK and NATO's lack of a response to it live ammo does make sense when rubber bullets cant reach past 100 meters and when the Israelis are using .22s to incapacitate violent protestors
Oh sorry, I meant the UN assfucking the IDF. Live ammo doesn't even make sense in that case. These protests are by no means the worst out there, but the way it's being handled is terrible. Imagine an anti-riot force just shooting the rioters and then using their distance to the rioters as an excuse. The IDF is doing it even worse, since the protestors have to come to them. What reason do they have to start firing from 300 meters instead of 100?
Good to know .22 is non lethal as evident with the medic shot in this article the thread is based on.
because the buffer zone is 300 meters and the IDF already has enough problems with Hamas trying to breach the fence and attack them, esp when Hamas uses journalists as cover http://videoidf.co.il/300318-HE-03.mp4 https://twitter.com/idfonline/status/996384466741456896 source for journalist claim: https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/58149/41e6bfdd-5bd8-4bed-9fa6-73897331dbb1/image.png guy on the ground is holding a pipe bomb israel has enough problems with Hamas posing as protesters that the Israelis want to keep everyone away from the border so more incidents like these dont happen.
Mr Trump decided to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem because he likes to keep campaign promises made to his bases, which also lobbied hard for the move. That included right-wing American Jews whose message was amplified by the conservative orthodox Jews dominating Mr Trump's inner circle. The lobbying would have started long before the announcement. The Palestinian have always wanted ro recover their stolen land. This fuels the fire significantly. Their worries escalates, so as their sense of desperation. Israel can't wash their hands off this. https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-44120428 Lets just say that I'm really as ignorant as you claim. But does the security counsil humanitarian corps back in UN that have the same opinion ignorant as well? Highly unlikely. But oh wait, they're antisemeitic, bias againsts Israel, blind in one eye, ecetera ecetera, is what you would say, right? At this rate, who else in this world would you deem to be right, except yourself? https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/sc13273.doc.htm
my problem is this: Tayé-Brook Zerihoun, United Nations Assistant Secretary-General for Political Affairs, briefing the Council on the situation, said that what had begun early in the day as a demonstration had devolved into violence at several locations across Gaza, resulting in more than 15 deaths and 1,000 injuries of civilians, with some reportedly coming from live ammunition that had been used by the Israeli security forces. They say that everyone injured/killed in Gaza was a civilian, clearly not the case since I just posted videos of "civlians" firing at the israelis
If everyone keeps telling you that you're brainwashed, maybe consider that you've been brainwashed. You might be brainwashed if you don't see the problem with shooting unarmed civilians or children. You might be brainwashed if you dehumanize your "enemy" to the point of feeling they deserve whatever they get. Maybe consider you're wrong and take a fresh look. See any other first world governments trying to eradicate an entire ethnic group?
And you retaliate by killing their medics, and other civilians? Medics, out of all people? All of those glorified, true and tested military protocol, count-each-bullets, high tech gears, just amounts to killing a 20 years old frail girl-medic? And live bullets as 1st weapon of choice? If you can't see why the international community condemns you, then kudos, continue what you're doing.
I have problems with shooting unarmed civilians and children, the problem is that Hamas is using these protests as a launching ground for border breaching operations and when Hamas operatives get killed doing that, they are recorded as civilian casualties when they are clearly not. I feel bad for the people of Gaza that are stuck with Hamas but that sympathy shouldn't open israelis up to attack from Hamas operatives that use civilians as shields to launch terror attacks from. Also, your accusation that israel is carrying out a genocide is ridiculous. I asked you for proof of this and I'm asking you again, do you have any proof of this?
Isn't the whole "shoot for the legs" thing ridiculed on these forums? As in it's a pretty poor way of non-lethally incapacitating people? Especially when you don't allow medics to get to the buffer zone themselves, leaving the people you shoot "non-lethally" to bleed out without any medical assistance? No, it definitely is fucking lethal. The nurse this thread is about was shot in the chest anyway. IDF evidently don't even follow their own protocol. Too bad your ministry of Defense denied a request for an independent investigation. Internal investigation definitely won't cut it despite the utter apparent disregard for civilians.
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