• Israel Sniper Killed Voluteer Female Medic, 100 Protesters Wounded
    322 replies, posted
Don't make such a terrible argument. Nazi Germany invaded Poland, the UK voted for Brexit, Russia annexed Crimea. The country does it. Israel has been violating these humanitarian laws for years. Don't blame it all on a single person, it's the collective actions of the entire IDF and lack of action of Israeli citizens.
I'm not sure you understand what I mean. Nobody in any official leadership position of consequence holds the position ascribed to Ayeled Shaked (I'm not even sure she does considering words like that here are usually political pandering, but she might, if one takes into account her other words on similar subjects), nor are her words reflective of any policy Israel officially undertakes (but certainly reflective of the mindsets of some people in this country, I can admit that much). It isn't Israeli official policy that the families of terrorists should be killed along with the terrorists, nor is this idea reflected in anything Israel does. One can point however at the demolitions and sealing with cement of houses belonging to terrorists (including sometimes their families) - and this is what one should do when criticizing Israel, because this is a legitimate problem and it is fucked up in just about any way you can think of. It quite literally is collective punishment. Dumb hyperbole of the sort demonstrated is absolutely useless for getting anything changed here, either the minds of people or the situation itself. What you call "the collective actions of the entire IDF" has nothing to do with this, because this specific situation is because of particular actions of particular parts of the IDF stationed in particular areas which receive particular orders. It isn't like the IDF is irredeemable and cannot be changed in some way as to lessen the amount of injuries and deaths every time such a local conflict happens. It is always particular actions and policies and groups and individuals we should point our fingers at, one cannot implement reforms with vague words and harsh language. Yes, condemnation should be leveled at Israel and the IDF every time this sort of thing happens, but in an effective matter - offering actual solutions that don't amount to just "ok just don't do that". To fail to do so is to play into the hands of the people who manipulate PR and rhetoric here in order to gain votes and perpetuate this mess. If this does not bother you, do as you will. As for your examples, I was not aware the UK is collectively to blame for Brexit happening?
I think a nation's notion of policy can be different in theory or in paper and in practice. In theory Israel can be a fairly egalitarian country but in practice, that's up for debate. I think israel systematically oppresses palestine, regardless if there intentions are to do so or not. The settlement issue is a good example of that, imo https://youtu.be/-zAQG_5DG6A Which doesn't really excuse Hamas in any way but you know, the situation is complicated.
I completely and utterly agree. The situation is complicated and the way Israeli institutions treat Palestinian nationals in the military administered territories is fucked up (even on paper!) for a country calling itself a western democracy. However, to properly analyze why these things happen one needs to listen to both stated and unstated motives behind policies and operations in a way as objective as possible (surely, you would agree that the claim that Israel seeks extermination of terrorist demon children is a bit absurd, no?) and then not only condemn this fucked up, bloody and complicated situation but to offer realistic alternatives that takes the potential consequences of changing of current policies into account so as to convince the policy makers and at least enough of the general populace, for after all this is a democracy, however flawed. To go against public opinion in a position of authority is political and career suicide for some people, and to properly sway public opinion one needs to be as knowledgeable of the situation as possible (and to seek to arm people you seek to convince with such knowledge they failed to consider). Moral outrage (even when justified) alone sadly does little to change the minds of those entrenched in trauma and toxic political culture. The only way to override the stigma of "ignorant outsider westerners" over here is to prove that one knows exactly what one talks about when one states an opinion on a matter, because otherwise there is an air of suspicion about whether said outsider has fallen for what people believe is biased information by parties with clear political loyalties. I have personally have no loyalty to any party to this conflict, and neither should anyone seeking an unbiased lasting solution - however, the opinions and positions and beliefs and reality of all parties involved are to be considered in order to even think about getting there.
How is it possible for me to hate literally every single one of your opinions and how you choose argue them?
The Israeli Army Edited This Clip Of A Medic They Killed To Make..
Holy shit, they're outright knowingly spouting propaganda to justify this woman's death, that they are responsible for. This bunch of cunts should be tried in international courts. These are the people who will conduct the so-called "investigation", for fuck's sake. Only an independent investigation could truly show that this shooting was justified, which makes the government's decision to deny it all the more transparent. The notion, pushed by some of the posters in this thread, that the IDF is a decently self-regulating body is laughable. Unless they can produce hard evidence in their favor, this shooting is and should be considered to be a state-sanctioned murder.
I know a lot of you dont like buzzfeed, but this is well sourced and will probably get a better source out soon. Basically what happened was that the IDF directly edited a video where the medic was stating that she was a "human shield watching over the life of other" (you know, like a doctor), and turned it into "I am a human shield" (as in for hamas). theres no excusing this, no way around it. its despicable
In that video she just looks like another rioter.
Too bad she's not, which is plainly evident if you did any independent research into what happened instead of swallowing your state's propaganda.
ah I forgot that dressing up in a medic costume and throwing smoke canisters is just something medics do apparently. I can just dress up as a medic, say that I'm a human shield for the people of Palestine, and now suddenly I can do whatever the fuck I want
o i didn't realize, they should have shot her in the head!!!
If they don't, they should at this point. It seems you need a smoke screen now if you want to treat the wounded without being shot and killed by IDF cunts. So you've drank the "human shield" kool-aid apparently. What exactly is this "whatever the fuck I want" you're referring to, now? Care to point me towards this medics actions that warranted her being murdered? Oh, right. You've got nothing. Neither does the IDF, evidently. Because if they did, they wouldn't have to fabricate pieces of fake news to smear her name, would they? You disgust me.
I can dress up as a medic, press, or just send my child there and go to the border (which the Palestinians were told to stay the fuck away from) "we will shoot anyone that comes to the border" also looks like some 'peaceful protesters' got past the border Woman, 18, severely wounded in suspected terror stabbing in nort..
I think you skipped over the important question to answer here. That being, why is treating the wounded worthy of being murdered over? How can you possibly defend that?
Soon the idf will be fabricating the memories in your head so you better watch out, they idf gonna get you man.
I've just spend 10 min going over the past posts to see where was this established? can you please point me to it because I can't seem to find where the alternative was suggest?
Can you quote the post where an alternative was suggest? there was a lot of talk about alternatives which are not really alternatives because they don't work because they can't be applied to this specific scenario because the rioting here is near the border, not in cities. so there wasn't really any agreed upon alternative.
I'm not gonna go into different parts of this discussion, because honestly I don't feel I have a good enough grasp on the Israel-Palestinian conflict to opine on it, but yes, yes they should. Unless a guy in a medic uniform is suddenly running towards you with an AK and a bomb belt, you should assume that they are what they look like - medics. You can often recognize them as they'll be tending to the wounded, rather than shooting at you.
Fuck that shit, we're not going to compromise ANY of our security, if that means shooting some Palestinians dressed as medics then so be it. compromising our security means some of our people might die, and that's unacceptable.
well if you were reading, water cannons and pepper spray don't do shit because the Palestinians are used to this shit already, and rubber bullets can be lethal too.
have they magically developed a tolerance to water cannons and pepper spray, rendering them ineffective? also, using rubber bullets for crowd control is so much better of an option than live rounds are. what on earth are you smoking? i would like to try some, please.
they're using diy gas masks for tear gas and pepper spray and yes they've developed resistance to water cannons, regular people give up when hit by a water cannon but the Palestinians are persistent and don't give a shit. not to mention that IDF would have to put themselves in unnecessary risk and potentially die if they get too close to the border. whatever you've been trying so far seems to have fucked you up real good so I don't think you should be trying anything else.
By this logic, any country would be justified in shooting medics. It's pretty telling that countries have by and large accepted that either side should be able to retrieve and treat their wounded without harassment, but you're straight up saying that killing innocent people is justified, as long as there's an infinitesimally small chance of saving one of your own. Personally, I think this mentality is a product of being massively stronger than your opponent - if 99 out of a 100 casualties are your opponent's, why should you respect their ability to treat their wounded? Without opining on who's right or wrong, one striking feature of the Israel-Palestine conflict is the massive difference in losses on either side. I think it's also the wrong mentality, though - when small "might" increases in your security come at an inhuman detriment to your opponent, you're not in the right.
Putting aside the fact that she was identified as a nurse and was volunteering in a paramedic's capacity, that still begs the question of why it's acceptable to fire on medical personnel. Because, well, it's not.
if you use too much pressure the water can blind and also potentially kill, so that would defeat the purpose of it being a non-lethal riot method. you can't apply regualr riot control methods here, the palestinians are a special bunch and are willing to die here, not just riot. also considering that they're bringing children with them to the border, you can probably imagine how would shooting a child with a water cannon would turn out.
This is such a pointless thing to talk about. Water cannons would be almost useless in the context of these riots. First, they only have a range of like 200 ft, which isn't nearly far enough in this situation. Second, the area needing controlling is absolutely massive compared to a normal "riot." They need to essentially be watching and be ready to repulse an attack across the entire border of Israel and Gaza. They simply can't control that much space with something like water cannons. These Gazan riots are entirely different than a regular riot in other important ways as well. For example, most riots are done by civilians while these riots are done by both civilians and the literal military wing of an enemy government. There's a tinge of actual warfare in these riots that almost never exists in a normal riot. Israel isn't going to let Hamas get close enough to take easy shots, throw grenades, throw molotovs, throw IEDs, etc. That's the point of the buffer zone around the border.
"X might possibly kill, so use Y which is designed to kill cause you might as well"
You heard it here folks, Palestinians are completely immune to the rule or chemical reactions and the laws of physics.
Oh, I forgot, in your mind there needs to be a 1:1 death ratio for actions to be justified. Israel should just let some Hamas militants through so they can happily murder some sleeping kids, then you might be satiated.
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