• Trump eyes even higher tariffs as trade war with China escalates
    46 replies, posted
Repeating what I said in the other thread: China has been engaged in trade war with the US, and the rest of the West for that matter, for two decades now. Since the late-90s, they've been actively and deliberately flooding Western markets to destroy local industries, then bringing the prices back up to ensure foreign dependence. China has actively subsidized their domestic industry so that it can outcompete their Western competitors, and their blind eye towards rampant copyright infringement isn't an accident of bureaucracy, it's actively cultivated by their government both for espionage and economic benefit. Argue all you want over whether responding the way we have is the right call, but nothing we could possibly do now would make us the instigators of trade war that has been tacitly ongoing for longer than many of the posters here have been alive. Trump being a short-sighted, incompetent asshole doesn't give China a free pass. I didn't even mention some of the finer details, like how the Chinese government entertains a lax attitude toward worker's rights, allowing their citizens to be exploited in sweatshop conditions for the sake of beating their Western rivals. Western businesses are getting choked out and simply cannot compete with a country that has government subsidies on most of their industry, rock-bottom prices as a result of exploitative labor, and deliberately engages in predatory market manipulation. In particular, China is notorious for 'zombie corporations', companies which set their margins so low that they cannot turn a profit on their own, but are propped up by the Chinese government. The only solution is tariffs and duties, like what the European Commission introduced last year as a means of combating Chinese manipulation of the steel market, which in turn are what China calls trade war. Trump didn't start this; he may be doing a spectacular job of mismanaging the issue and escalating it in unproductive ways, but China has been meddling in foreign markets for the better part of two decades and some form of response was long overdue.
Who, prey tell, is China in debt to? Who? Who exactly?
obama was fighting this by locking them out of free trade deals and enacting targeted antidumping. lets not pretend that trump's global 25% tariff has anything to do with china, its about trying to boost US steel manufacturing just like the bush era version of this was. if this was aimed at china it would and could have been carried out under much stronger legal grounds that have much larger tariff ceilings. the problem is to do that requires much more legwork
I guess my issue is that when it's framed as China vs Trump, people are siding with China. For all his supposed business acumen Trump is really fucking us over here (I don't know what Boilrig is on about), but we have to recognize that Trump is not the root reason of economic tension between the US and China. Treating China as the unequivocal victim because the orangutan-in-chief decided to escalate that tension is really dangerous thinking.
China Debt Clock We suggest you multiply by at least 3.25 for this figure, then consider adding a figure for China's shadow banking (loans outside of formal banks) China has a lot of issues as did countries in the Eurozone when that crisis hit and they all owed each other money. Debt isn't one way my dude, China certainly doesn't own the worlds debt as some may believe, but a percentage of it. Europe has been leaning towards China for a while to try and get China to open up investment which they are refusing to do, and the rest is just a mess under 'national security'.
So what about the fact that there is a consensus amongst leading economists that imposing new US tariffs on steel and aluminum will not improve Americans’ welfare?
I mean, the general impression I get is that most people see the US as the victim here, as opposed to China. Hell, China must be loving the current situation in the western world, it gives them plenty of opportunities to exploit.
China isn't going to blink first you pancake. When shit gets really bad and the Republicans start really making a fuss Trump's fragile little ego will shatter and he'll give in. If, and I mean IF China's people start bitching their government isn't gonna give a good god damn.
China's debt is 1/5 of what the US debt is. You don't understand economics nearly as well as you think you do. I fully understand China doesn't have 0 debt, do you understand the scale of their debt compared to the scale of their GDP? They do so through manipulation and dishonest tactics that I do not support, but to say they are not in an economically superior position, and to call out their debt in such a way is not accurate criticism as far as I can see.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-21/game-theory-explains-why-the-u-s-china-trade-spat-is-worsening There's a couple articles outside of this one on the same topic, that game theory on this scale for the US can lead to more favourable trading terms. Prisoner's dilemma and what not. I didn't bring up the debt topic, I just answered the question given and tbh don't think it plays an issue in this current trade war.
china's debt is hidden inside its financial system. its no coincidence that Xi's belt and road initiative and their africa programs are basically extorting nations to take out massive subsidized loans from china. they need that money because they have lost a lot of money on speculative enterprises and government run corporations. they hide it in their state owned banks backed by their state owned insurance companies. they are clearly hoping that they can get the countries of the third world to pay for their economy for the next 20-30 years by building roads and bridges and locking up mineral rights
Hey @Boilrig ! Remember me? Remember what I asked you twice already? Patiently awaiting your response xx Kazumi
Gaslighting is one helluva drug
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