Mitch McConnell was chased out of an restaurant by protesters. - Polidicks

Nobody with a sane mind would threaten such a thing, I'm not accusing you but I don't believe that a modern western government would allow such a thing to happen after the atrocities that happened in the past. Hell, even a vast majority supporters of the current state of affairs would turn their back on it. I just don't think people should jump the gun and start accusing people of things they haven't even done, by all means disagree with them, debate them and work on making change but come on, harassing people instead of going about change the right way? Sorry to all of you for getting so fired up, I am not a trump supporter nor do I agree with many things his government have done but I just genuinely don't believe that the things we see now in response or opposition are the answer.

Then you're not paying attention. Said atrocities are being white-washed even today and people are starting to argue whether they even occurred. I'm going by what people have publicly stated they believe in and would support.

I dont know what you mean by white washed, they have always been taught at schools to be an awful thing and as fact. People that refuse point 1 and people that state they would support such a thing are a vast minority and also extremists.

What exactly do you expect people to do when the people in power refuse to listen?

I'm sorry to report this to you, orcywoo6, but I mean white-washed. As in 'that never happened' or 'that wasn't as bad as people say' or 'this is all a narrative constructed by Jews'. Just because you don't want to believe there are people out there, right now, who'd argue (and have unfortunately successfully recruited in large numbers people to their organizations) that the Holocaust 'didn't happen' or was 'greatly exaggerated' doesn't remove their existence or relevance. A vast minority with a majority or monopoly of power is not an innocent or ignorable threat.

Yeah, the doormat left you want isn't happening. Get over it

Oppose them through the democratic process until all options are exhausted or until change or compromise can be made, as should be done in a democratic nation.

Or what? They'll be impeached? There's plenty of grounds for the President's impeachment today, not tomorrow or in a year. Today. So why isn't he impeached? Why are you so convinced they would 'never let that happen' when the President is, right now, refusing to execute his office as he pledged an oath to -- and Congress is pleased to allow him to do it?

I'm sorry, I didn't realise that is what you meant. People like that are just insane, there isn't really any excuse. But it is highly unlikely such people would ever call the shots in a modern government.

It's highly unlikely, sure. It has already happened though. They are presently calling the shots in this modern government. I mean it - there are extremists, right now, who are directly advising the President and whom the President is not just listening to but who is implementing their policies exactly as they'd like them to be. Articles have already been brought once (or twice ) I think. It's been shot down by the Republican majority. If the Democrats don't break that majority this year, it's unlikely said articles would ever pass. Our system of checks and balances which relies on the Legislative checking the Executive's power is already showing that the Legislative is acting as an arm of the Executive branch. Again: Articles could be brought today. They were brought last year. They have been threatened to be brought this year. There's plenty grounds to impeach him, successfully, on. All that's required is for the Republican majority to decide that, yes, those are impeachment-worthy. They do not believe what he's doing is impeachment worthy. If they did, they would at least censure the President.

Since impeachment is a political process, there is already way more than enough grounds for impeaching Trump. Calling the media "the enemy of the people" for example, would already be enough. However, the GOP will never impeach Trump. Not now, not after Muller releases his findings, NEVER. It is impossible for Trump to be impeached even after the midterms, because the Democrats can't possibly achieve the necessary majority to push it through, and the Republicans will hold onto every little bit of control they can retain. Even if that control turns out to be a racist, mysogynistic, conspiratard traitor with a fanatical cult backing him.

People have been civilly trying to convince people for Trumps entire presidency. It doesn't work. The only reason Trump supporters keep saying they want things to been done civilly, isn't because it may convince them. It's so they can ignore it. These things shouldn't require convincing on whether they're right or wrong

Hmm, I just don't know whether I can believe it as something that could happen, call me ignorant but I would like to think that nobody would ever repeat past mistakes and see a hero of such atrocities become the villain. As far as I've seen so far nothing so far as extreme has been passed through by them? Although I may have missed it. Do you guys not have an investigative body separate from the government to stop these things being blocked? I mean if there is so many things that are grounds for impeachment as seems to be the case, surely sooner or later they'll stick?

funny how your attitude changes https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/172/f4fabc90-0f99-4a46-bc17-0eb358701f4b/image.png when it's muslims, people need to stand up to 'toxic groups' because 'appeasement never works' when it's conservatives, you stand up to them and you're a 'fucking nazi'

You realize you're saying this in a world where the US president said that the neonazis in Charlottesville had some fine people in them, right? The White House is occupied by people who either sympathize with nazis or are just apathetic to the problems they cause.

Congress is where Impeachment begins and ends. Impeachment is the only way to remove a sitting President, save an invocation of the 25th(?) amendment, where the President is declared mentally unfit and therefore the VP assumes his seat; that also requires Congressional approval. It does not matter the volume of requests if the Republican majority simply and flatly denies to hear any such articles, refuses to allow them to be brought to the floor to even be brought to a vote, and finally refuses to 'Yea' the Articles of Impeachment brought before them. Congress is literally the only non-judicial means to remove the President. If the Congress is compromised, the President has unlimited power. I'll repeat that: If the Congress is compromised and refuses to check the Executive, the Executive has unlimited power. Believe it. John Bolton and Stephen Miller are but the most obvious and flagrant of those presently in office. One is a white nationalist who wants immigration as a concept to die in America because he believes the racial purity of America and her culture are being 'lost' due to the White race being diminished; he denies being one though, of course, despite running and founding a website which advises and speaks about literally all of that. Bolton, meanwhile, truly and actually believes that all conflicts should be resolved through war or rattling sabers - if that's not an Extremist position then there is no such thing as an extremist position.

Notice how I said "attempt to prevent or remedy". I.E find a way to fix the problem? Not fucking harass them in the streets, I never said that.

notice how you said the people need to say when enough is enough? here they are, saying it

And how do you propose to 'attempt to prevent or remedy' the problem when the problem can't be prevented as it's already in office and can't be remedied because it refuses to listen to its constituents?

So really, its a huge flaw in the american government system which is being exploited to a certain extent? Surely an independent body should also exist to ensure fair processes and prevent this. I'm surprised one isn't implemented already. I'll do some reading about those you named and see what I can find on them, that doesn't sound too healthy.

It's not fascism / racial cleansing tier, but Trump is enacting the same tax cuts and regulation easing that lead to the housing crisis just a decade ago. People can and will repeat the past. also there's the whole "separating children from their parents and holding them hostage until the parents agree to drop their asylum claims, and putting said children (even if they're 1 year old) in front of a judge to defend themselves without a lawyer" thing These are the same people who cry they're being oppressed when cashiers say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". "Don't give them fuel to let them claim to be victims"? They can take literally anything and use it to claim they're victims. On the other hand, letting them know they're not welcome will 1. make them know that they aren't as reelectable/untouchable as they think they are, and 2. let people in the middle know that they'll be ostracized if they support this shit.

No need to read, I'll save you the time. The immigration policies of the President are Stephen Miller's largely. The foreign policies of the President currently are thanks to John Bolton. They were previously thanks mostly to Mattis shouting over all the extremists, but now the President has soured on Mattis because Bolton is sour on Mattis, and he's no longer taking Mattis' opinion. I'll remind that Mattis is the Secretary of Defense and the President, who brought him in to serve in his position, is ignoring his military and strategic advice on matters concerning national security. How does that change literally anything about those who are presently in power and are almost probabilisticly ensured to remain in power just enough to ensure that Articles can't be brought?

Look, if you think people will easily give up on power, or throw away their victim narrative at this point about being "attacked by the tolerant left", I think tolerance decided to go full ouroboros. When people stop listening to reason and refuse to believe the evidence in front of them, they can sink or swim on their own steam for all I care. I've done my fair share of trying to be convincing and maintain a neutral position ever since the fucking election began, and as far as I've seen beyond the ones who permitted themselves to be convinced, none of the rest had any other wish except to see the liberals getting owned. Over two years, if I've managed to convince and educate a handful of people, that would be a miracle by itself. And if they want to throw their lives away through armed revolution once their god emperor is ousted either legally or illegally from power, depending on the situation, preferably legally because as you said we don't need to give such people more ammo, as the Chinese would put it, knives and fists are both blind and don't care which side you belong to. This doesn't mean I think it ought to happen, but going against the rule of law tends to have those consequences. And believe it or not, I simply wouldn't care one jot if they paid the price for their stupidity then.

Oh, and I'd like to ask if you still think 'we're Nazis'. I'd like to know if your position has evolved now that you realize what the stakes we're playing at are and who the players involved are.

Like I said earlier, I apologise for my outburst, I got riled up before taking the opportunity to discuss and learn about things I was still a bit ignorant of. Thank you for bearing with me, there was quite a few things I was unaware of. I still do believe certain individuals and groups go about things in a far too extreme way, but that can be said for both sides really.

Sure, but not in any comparable proportion.

It's just that "One" of those sides is fighting for the right to continue to marry, to have immigration, to have healthcare, welfare, and an economy that helps everyone, not just the super rich. The problem with "Both sides are bad" logic here is that one side is demonstrably worse in every humanitarian metric possible. The only way to ignore that, is to not care about humanistic values, and only care about traditionalist values. I think many people have betrayed themselves and their own values and been swept up in demagoguery.

We have a president that the majority of the country voted against. The political process is intrinsically linked to financial status and we the people are forced to compete with billionaires, conglomerates and nuclear world powers to have our voices heard. The whole "do it the right way!" is just a diversion, like sending people down a winding maze that leads to a dead end.

Also, I'd like to correct my earlier statement that there'd be no recourse left as there would be exactly one recourse left. It's a recourse that's untested, has only been done once to my knowledge, and would require (especially in today's political environment) almost unprecedented and apartisan support. That's a Constitutional Convention. It's where the representatives of every single one of the 51 States come together and more or less all unanimously agree to an action. It is by that same convention that the Constitution was formed, and so arguably there is no higher compelling power than the decision of a Constitutional Convention. If it is the will of every state of the nation, then so must it be the will of the Government which represents those states -- otherwise, it has declared itself to be a state beholden only to itself and therefore should be immediately expunged.

This isn't about the apathetic. If you're apathetic to the goings on with detainment camps, separating children from their parents, isolating and attacking our century old allies, travel bans and painting immigrants as diseases to be removed you're either okay with this or you failed history class. Apathy after a year of horrifying realizations is the "This is Fine" meme in action. If you're apathetic, you're helping the fascists because they rely on apathy and good will of civility.