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149 replies, posted
There has been... SO MUCH evidence posted
There has been zero evidence that corporate influence is the cause of decreased union support. None.
Can provide some pro-union propaganda? regardless of whether this point you're making is hypothetical or not.
How could you possibly show that level of causation. what you're asking is ridiculous. Next you'd be demanding evidence that upon confrontation with union imagery, it's these precise videos that come to mind first in peoples heads. The causation IS there. Whether you're too dumb to see it is no one else's fault
... then don't make a claim that you can't provide evidence for? Evidence being difficult to find doesn't somehow make it OK to make unevidenced claims. That just means we should hold off on making claims until more evidence surfaces.
As I've already shown, much of the drop in support came before these kinds of videos existed, and FAR before they were anywhere near widespread. To say that these videos/tests are the main causative force behind the drop in support is to totally ignore that fact. It also ignores that the level of support doesn't at all seem to follow these types of videos, though we really don't know because no evidence has been provided.
I've experienced it first hand. I worked in a temporary type of job with my local school district for a while, and because of the position type I wasn't part of the local union. While I was there, the union started a campaign to gain representation over my type of employment as well. To do so, they started meeting with people like myself, in an attempt to convince us to sign something stating I wanted to be represented. I happily met with the union rep and listened to his pitch. The whole thing was propaganda. He presented everything as half truths in order to make the union look as positive as possible. They even had attempts at what can only be seen as bribery. They would offer free dinners or free events to pull you in.
Personal anecdotes are extremely poor evidence, you should know better.
Like if I told you that Jeff Bezos came up to me personally and punched me in the face and that that was evidence enough that you shouldn't trust corporations, would you believe me?
Jeff Bezos walked up to me and gave me 500$ and a kiss on the cheek, so yeah you should trust corporations
You asked for an example?
And I am criticizing your example as not very good
You literally asked for me to give you an example. So that's what I did. Are you now saying that you want me to present evidence that union propaganda is widespread? Because that isn't what you asked originally.
okay give me evidence then
Is there such a thing as an even handed union organizing campaign? Honestly, just look at any of them. They only present positives. They exaggerate like crazy. They don't allow for any balance. Etc. It's the same thing on both sides of the issue.
Just for example, here's a blurb from the Delta Worker's United website (I just looked up some ongoing organizing campaign and scrolled down for about 5 seconds):
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/57908/82740b87-2f06-48cd-9737-f14eada66b0e/image.png
Is that not propaganda? It has basically nothing to do with the situation these people are in and is just trying to appeal to the emotional impact of, "Wow, professional athletes are doing it, then it must be great!"
It just sounds like you're suggesting that unions trying to make themselves sound good is propaganda now.
Trying to make your side sound good in an emotive and biased way is like the definition of propaganda.
Really?
I think present Sgman91 has called past Sgman91 an anti-union propagandist
Nice zinger attempt? I guess? I'm sure you'll get plenty of winners, agrees, and whatever else you're really here for from it.
Christ you're dense.
I'm pretty biased but I think that was better than nitpicking the difference between example and evidence. You're also insanely biased against unions and you've made no attempt to hide it.
I'm not a fan of most unions, yup, and I have no reason to try and hide it. With that said, my personal experience, including the one I laid out, has been almost entirely negative and not exaggerated. I really do wish I had a recorder in the room.
It's almost like most people in here are biased in one way or another. I just wish everyone was willing to admit it.
This is propaganda against unions because it is anecdotal evidence which I cannot verify, nor can anyone else.
You seem to just be throwing around the word "propaganda." You're welcome to not take my experience at face value. That's fine. In fact, I expect it because I would do the exact same thing, but it's not propaganda. It's simply anecdotal evidence that carries a very low level of evidence, if any at all, in a discussion.
So you recount your experiences with one Union, and base that as a universal representation of every single union throughout the entire United States. Even though you have been shown evidence by multiple people on this forum with different experiences with Unions and yet you wont believe them because it conflicts your world-view. Because everything revolves around you and anyone else with a different political opinion is either a part of a hivemind or you think they're "Trolling" you.
fuck sake...
No, that's not at all what I'm doing. I'm taking my experience with unions, comparing it to a multitude of national news items about unions, comparing that with the experience of many people I've spoken about on the issue, and looking at the consequences of many of the modern large unions nationwide, and establishing my position on all of those things combined.
Tbh sounds like a great job, can you give me an address?
Oh, it was a great job. It required zero education or specialized skill and came with $28/h, full cadillac benefit plans, and a healthy vacation allotment.
