NRA chairman says NY's laws have hurt its programs, Cumo says "too bad". - Polidicks

Guess that says an awful lot about the current constituency if this is the kind of leadership they put in, via apathy or otherwise.

This is bullshit though, if it's so easy to change things from within and members hate the management so much then they should be able to change it without my help. If it's not easy to change the management then me joining (and implicitly supporting an organization which I don't want to support anyways with my goddamn money) is a fucking fool's errand anyways and from my perspective it would be better if the organization died or underwent serious reform beyond simply the members voting. Which is it?

any and all regulations are by default infringing on the 2nd amendment but even in the maligned heller the most conservative justices still agreed the 2nd amendment is not absolute and unlimited.

Your entire argument revolves around the assumption that any and all responses must contain additional regulations to the 2nd amendment.

Maybe run a campaign to actually have people vote. This is like bitching about senators and congressmen who maintain decade long reigns due to apathetic voters. Maybe run an actual campaign if you want people to vote. People support the NRA because it is the sole force of pro gun lobbying. Others have popped up but none have the outreach and efficacy the NRA does. How are you going to push for reform from the outside of an organization? You can campaign from the outside to kill the NRA, but you'll never gain any traction because no sensible pro-2A individual will support you for trying to kill the only group that lobbys their interests. Change it from the inside. You don't have to but someone does if you want things to change with them. Its not limitless but do you honestly think a federal level CC permit (which already exists) os infringing on state rights? IIRC, politicians, their bodyguards, celebrities, and their bodyguards, are all able to get federal CC permits.

Im not part of the NRA cyke, people keep screaming about how the current NRA hurts gun owners, but they also just dont vote them out. Thats between you and their members, just saying atm its total shit.

well we're sure as shit not seeing the NRA outfront for universal healthcare like they always claim every mentally deranged shooter could have been stopped by.

Because it's the largest pro-gun lobby there is. Even most GOP senators do not care about guns. The NRA is shit, but they're the main thing holding up gun rights on a federal level. If they die, I forsee an increase in gun control lobbying and likely among these efforts, a revival of the dreaded AWB.

Allocate the DoJ funds specifically for prosecution of straw purchase, the #1 source of illegal firearms, but which they currently lack the resources to pursue. Allocate the ATF funds specifically for prosecution of unscrupulous FFL holders, the #2 source of illegal firearms, but which they currently lack the resources to pursue. Open the NICS to non-FFLs, then mandate background checks on all private sales. Fix the broken interaction between state and federal databases (due to HIPAA) which often causes mental issues to not be reported to the federal background check system. Address causes of poverty such as lack of opportunity, the terrible healthcare system, and gangs None of those solutions sound like they really infringe upon the 2nd amendment to me.

I think the fact this is lied about so constantly is part of why this conversation is not happening. You're not being honest. There is no "epidemic". The stats are clear. Gun deaths, and gun violence are down. We live in the least violent time in human history. This doesn't seem to be true, but it is.

our least violent time is still quite a lot more violent than europe. its irresponsible to say everything is fine and push for more guns when more people are dying from them here than they should as a developed nation.

moving the goalposts, I see

I'm not a member either but I dont have the resources (for example, money) to run a campaign on the NRA voter base. The NRA doesnt hurt gun owners, they hurt their reputation and not really anything else. The NRA is the sole lobbying force that protects gun owners. When you have 50ish% of the political force in America wanting to restrict or remove gun rights, you gotta take the good with the bad. The NRAs marketing and ads are disgusting but wanting to kill off the entire organization is foolish, unless you want gun rights restricted. Quit moving the goal posts to veil your dishonesty. Comparing a single nation to the entirety of Europe is just retarded. America is only similar to Europe in the regard that people live in both of those places. Economics, culture, government, laws, demographics, ect. All completely different. There is no reason to compare Europe to America on gun violence unless you just want to push a dishonest narrative. Yea America has a problem with gun violence but it is waining as the years go on, and abolishing the NRA is not going to fix that problem.

Majority of people i've seen who are totally ban all guns, point towards the NRA as an example of crazies. It doesn't matter if they are the sole lobbying force, their organization still says stupid shit all the time. Arming teachers, saying the media is the enemy of the people, telling Americans with guns should rebel because the dark lord Obama is going to become a dictator, or their ridiculous TV station that is straight up propaganda does nothing to help legitimate gun owners. Like you say all it does is hurt their reputation, but then do the same by lumping the entire democratic platform as anti-gun crazies because of one single point the DNC pushes. I'll also take the good with the bad by voting in anti-gun policies vs total corruption and destruction of the environment. But I know plenty of democrats that are trying to remove the old fuckers out and bring the gun debate to equal terms, NRA has a turnout of 7%.

Is this true? Gun deaths have been declining for years, is it actually growing again?

Wanna quote for me where the NRA called for revolution because Obama took office? Lol Yea, I know the NRA has some reprehensible propaganda out there. Never said otherwise, but again, theyre the sole lobbying force for gun rights. Without them we probably wouldn't have them at this point. Like I said, they hurt my reputation but protect my rights. Saying that anti-gun folk push their narrative because of the NRA is silly. Come on. I never said the DNC is a bunch of anti gun lunatics. I said they stand for restricting, and for some outright removing, gun rights in America. and we can work together to enact commonsense improvements--like reinstating the assault weapons ban and closing the gun show loophole--so that guns do not fall into the hands of those irresponsible, law-breaking few. http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Democratic_Party_Gun_Control.htm Thats a quote from the DNC platform from 2012. A bit old but I doubt you can find me a contrary quote since they tried to reinstate the AWB after the LV shooting, especially since theyve run on an antigun platform since the Brady Campaign started funding the DNC. The DNC runs on a strong anti-gun platform. It varies in intensity betweem candidates but the absolute base of it is the AWB. So when I say "democrats want to restrict guns", its not dishonest or incorrect whatsoever because that is literally their party doctrine. Maybe if the DNC didn't run on a disingenuous, ineffectice, and noncompromising platform on guns, the NRA would lose its purpose and either adapt or fail. Maybe if the DNC wasnt interested in undermining foundational rights they wouldn't have to blame their constant losses on the NRA.

I'd honestly really, really love to see just about everything on this list happen. It pisses me off to see a tragedy occur, and then see people pushing for stricter laws even when, under current laws, the perpetrator shouldn't have been able to get the gun anyways. It's like... Great, that obviously won't fix anything.

Idk, the entire campaign trail was covered with the NRA claiming Obama was coming to take all their guns. To the point the president himself called them out on it: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/16/obama-gun-control-plan-nra The National Rifle Association immediately vowed all-out opposition to his proposals, warning it was preparing for "the fight of the century". Wayne LaPierre, the NRA executive vice-president, said: "I warned you this day was coming and now it's here. It's not about protecting your children. It's not about stopping crime. It's about banning your guns … period." In a statement, the NRA said "keeping our children and society safe remains our top priority". It continued: "Attacking firearms and ignoring children is not a solution to the crisis we face as a nation. Only honest, law-abiding gun owners will be affected and our children will remain vulnerable to the inevitability of more tragedy." Or you could have the time they targeted Obama's campaign by saying he was going to take their guns personally: https://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/08/nra-obama-most-anti-gun-candidate-ever-will-ban-guns-010821 http://images.politico.com/global/nra2.jpg Literally none of this was in his fucking agenda when he was running, It was pure scare tactics sent to NRA members. I was pointing out a comparison that I rather have tighter gun laws over losing the country/environment, Because you said you'd support the crazy bullshit the NRA pumps out on an daily basis just to keep lobby groups for gun rights. I even quoted you, "ill take the good with the bad". There's democrats who run wanting to be more lenient in gun rights, Too bad the NRA refuses to support them at all because how partisan the organization has become. To say you'll take the good with the bad, but then just shut down any kind of sway just because of a single point in their entire agenda and then blame them for things like the NRA being batshit, is hilarious. Its like saying "isis wouldnt be so crazy if the US didn't invade iraq." Like the NRA is a total cesspool: In 1995, former US President George H. W. Bush resigned his life membership to the organization after receiving a National Rifle Association Institute of Legislative Action (NRA-ILA) fund-raising letter, signed by executive vice president Wayne LaPierre, that referred to ATF agents as "jack-booted government thugs" In February 2018 a school shooting at a high school in Florida left 17 dead, and student survivors organized a movement called Never Again MSD to demand passage of certain gun control measures. Many of the students blamed the NRA, and the politicians who accept money from the organization, for preventing enactment of any gun control proposals after previous high profile shootings. An NRA spokesman responded by blaming the shooting on the FBI and the media. The NRA also issued a statement that the incident was proof that more guns were immediately required in schools in the hands of a bolstered force of armed security personnel in order to "harden" them against any further similar assaults. A Florida law passed in the wake of the shooting, which includes a provision to ban the sale of firearms to people under 21, was immediately challenged in federal court by the NRA on the grounds that it is "violating the constitutional rights of 18- to 21-year-olds." "They use their media to assassinate real news. They use their schools to teach children that the president is another Hitler. They use their movie stars, and singers, and comedy shows, and award shows to repeat their narrative over and over again. And then they use their ex-president to endorse the resistance (whoops, didn't even have to look up previous examples when they are still using Obama as a boogeyman). All to make them march. Make them protest. Make them scream racism and sexism and xenophobia and homophobia. To smash windows, burn cars, shut down interstates and airports, bully and terrorize the law abiding. Until the only option left is for the police to do their jobs and stop the madness. And when that happens, they'll use it as an excuse for their outrage. The only way we stop this. The only way we save our country and our freedom, is to fight this violence of lies with the clenched fist of truth." Like if NRA members are actually annoyed with the NRA, why don't they send their money to another PAC instead? Even if the NRA lost their money, I highly doubt their members would just give up and not support a different group that is also supporting gun rights. Also saying the DNC are corrupting a fundamental right when you have a government in power who's corrupting multiple branches and questioning attacking the first amendment is some good shit.

None of that looks like: "Rara dont vote for him because gun grabber rara" is not calling for rebellion. I'm not blaming anything on anyone. I wont take tighter gun laws in any scenario. I firmly believe that the 1st and 2nd amendments are the absolute foundational rights of our country. I wont vote for anyone who wants to compromise those. If the DNC changed its stance on gun rights, I would vote for them. If the RNC changed its stance on the 1A, I wouldnt vote for them. Simple as that. incomingshitstorm "hurdur single issue voter hurdur" ISIS wouldnt exist had the US not invaded then abandoned Iraq. Thats not an apt example. Thats not at all the case for the NRA, and I'm not blaming the NRAs foolishness on the Brady campaign or HCI or anything like that. I'm simply saying if Democrats dropped the retardation for 5 minutes they could completely invalidate the need for a group like the NRA. You can quit with the "nra is bad" stuff. Everybody knows. You can quit pointing the obvious out. I'm not disagreeing with you; the NRA sucks and is reprehensible, but unless you can find a similarly manned and funded lobbying group, its all we got. Its the same fallacy of the 2 party system. Nobody will vote for a 3rd party because they think theyre throwing their vote away or they think their vote holds no power. Apathy is a powerful thing. Even then I dont know if NRA members are annoyed with the current board members. I'm telling you how things should be fixed, thats all. I cant speak for the entirety of the NRA and their feedback on its administration. I dont like Trump. I dont like any attacks hes made on constitutional rights. Can we get back to talking about the NRA or do you need to find another field to move those goal posts into?

Okay so I can play this game too. I can ignore everything you say too. What a discussion that would be

"They use their media to assassinate real news. They use their schools to teach children that the president is another Hitler. They use their movie stars, and singers, and comedy shows, and award shows to repeat their narrative over and over again. And then they use their ex-president to endorse the resistance . All to make them march. Make them protest. Make them scream racism and sexism and xenophobia and homophobia. To smash windows, burn cars, shut down interstates and airports, bully and terrorize the law abiding. Until the only option left is for the police to do their jobs and stop the madness. And when that happens, they'll use it as an excuse for their outrage. The only way we stop this. The only way we save our country and our freedom, is to fight this violence of lies with the clenched fist of truth." "Fist of truth" must be just dumb shitposting. Or did you also ignore the pamphlet they sent out saying how he will destroy the 2nd amendment to rile up their base. Does the NRA have to literally come out and say "we need to form an armed militia to take back the government" before you can say "oh, i guess they are suggesting an uprising." When you have a party, right fucking now mind you, attacking the first amendment and corrupting the electoral process and you fall back on gun issues, of course i'm going to say you're a "single issue voter" because that is a single issue you're willing to buckle down on. Like the RNC has changed their stance on the 1A the day they supported a candidate that said the media is an enemy to the people. You'd have to be absolutely blind to not see how the 1A has been constantly attacked since the start of the republican majority. Just look at Sanders recently, she could not say that the media Isn't the enemy of the people. In other countries, people would be going fucking haywire over it. NRA would exist even if the DNC dropped their gun restrictive policies due to pushing for complete deregulation. Their entire history is backed with this agenda, saying the democrats becoming neutral will make them change is asinine. There's tons of lobbies out there, there's even ones for liberal gun owners. NRA has millions of members, they could easily swap to a non batshit party. I mean, if you really want to go full speed, join the even more strict gun lobbies. The money wont disappear if they switch lobbies that ultimately have the same goal. I get that, but when the current party wants a 1 party system, so why are you voting for them? This goes back to the single issue voter comment, you say you want more 3rd parties, but refused to remove the current oppressive party. Personally, I'd want a party that has the great parts of Its not moving the fucking goalposts, the NRA is a staunch partisan lobby that supports solely the republican party. Trump falls under that support, same with the rest of the R government. Just like you saying the Brady foundation is working with the democrats to erode the 2A, the NRA is working with the RP to erode the 1A. Just look at the transcript I've pasted twice now. NRA -> RNC -> attacking the 1A.

No it isn’t growing people like sableeye are being dishonest

"Resistance" in the context of that quote very clearly is not meant as literal armed resistance. Youre looking into a puddle and seeing an ocean with that quote. Ill believe that the NRA is calling for armed revolution when they actually call for armed revolution. Get real. Yea, which is why I dont support the current administration nor do I vote republican. Quit digging for reasons to incriminate me. Guns arent the only thing I vote on. What does the NRA have to fear monger against if both ruling party are pro gun? Why would they continue to incriminate a party who falls in line with their agenda? I support the Second Ammendment Foundation, for what its worth. I dont think theyve been involved in a lobbying effort, or rather an effective one, ever. The only lobbying group that lobbys in favor of guns effectively is the NRA. As I stated earlier, youll never get support for a push against the NRA in favor of another group. All thats going to do is cause infighting that will weaken the pro gun lobby all together. Thats why I'm calling for reformation instead of abolishment. I've never said once on this forum that I bote republican. I follow in line with core republican ideals but no candidate in my region follows those. (Before you incriminate on that comment, those core ideals dont include pro choice or anti environment rhetoric). If the Democrats would drop their anti gun platform, I'd might vote for them depending on their stance on other issues. Yea but i dont support the current administration, I dont support the republican party, and I dont support the NRA. Youre digging for things to incriminate me on so you can disregard my argument. My original and only argument in this thread is that the NRA is the sole gun lobbying group that actually gets the job done. Theyre disgusting and reprehensible but that doesnt mean they should be killed outright. It means they need to be reformed from the inside to be a more respectful and bipartisan lobbying group. The NRA is the largest citizen funded lobbying groups in the country and the power that fact holds is immense and can not be replicated. It took decades for the NRA to gain that title and in the time it would take to build a new group, there is massive potential for our rights to be eroded further.

It is moving the goal posts. Globally, violence is at an all time low. Gun violence in America is at an all time low minus some hiccups here and there. gun ownership, in a legal sense, is not a problem. It is a distraction

The way I see it, nothing good can come out of the NRA as it is now, and no force within or without the NRA can change or reform it. It might be time to chop off the arm so the patient can live.

What the hell are you talking about. I was pointing out saying the NRA has nothing to do with the RNC/trump is completely false considering they fund millions into PACs. Funding the NRA is supporting the RNC which atm is attacking the 1A.

Literally nobody is saying that lol. Youre being called out on picking up and movinf the goal posts with the argument. Its like youre not reading my posts at all and youre just being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.

Good to know not wanting to fund an already crazy group that that is funding another group that is attacking the 1A is now moving the goal posts. Especially when pointing out you're being contradictory saying dems are destroying fundamental rights but supporting a party who is actively destroying said rights.

Omfg dood you are literally not reading my goddamn posts. Are you blind or just stupid? Seriously, right above your retarded head: Its right fucking there dood. If youre just going to ignore my posts why are we even here? Ive said these things like 8 goddamn times lmfao. Youre so stuck up your own ass you cant even see when someone agrees with you! Im not telling you to support the NRA, I'm not telling you to do anything, I ain't your fuckin mom. Im saying that the NRA has too much pull and power to be abandoned and that reasonable gun owners such as myself should take control. Seriously man, whats your deal? Youre being willfully ignorant and completely disregarding the arguments in my post. Youre moving the goal posts and digging so god damn deep to try and find something we disagree on, but you just cant do it. We started out talking about reforming the NRA and you brought us all the way to talking about Trump because you just cant find a single goddamn point I'm wrong or morally reprehensible on. Its gotten to the point where youre literally ignoring plaintext so you can continue to argue with me, for no reason. You've gone from willfull ignorance to hostile stupidity. So man up. Either act like an adult and admit you agree with the centrist boogieman, drop this all together, or you can continue to act like a baby and move the goal posts to another field to see if we disagree on that.

Because you cant say "I dont support the republican party" but then fucking vote for them or support a party who is directly supporting them. You even said you'd change your mind if repubs attacked the 1A: How in the fuck is this not supporting the republican party. Do you have a six second memory and can't remember shit you type that contradicts your earlier points within the same post? All I said is that responsible gun owners should band and move their support for a different pac if they don't want to support the NRA. Or they should boycott/vote their leaders out so they seem more reasonable and bring more people scared of guns on their side without looking like straight up propaganda. All I was saying was that its funny you say the democrats are destroying your rights when the current administration (and the party the NRA funds) is actively doing that, thats it. Also can you ever, once in your entire time on FP, not turn into a manchild and sling playground insults.