Boilrig is the lifeblood of this forum (THINKPIECE) - Polidicks

but Sgman, I thought that you didn't

I'm dazzled by your shitposting.

coming from you, that's the pinnacle of flattery

I'm having difficulty finding the thread using the search feature but there was a thread awhile back where you accused a Democrat (may have been just some liberal dude) of wanting to destroy America. When you got a lot of backlash from that you fell back to saying that he just wants to destroy traditional values, of which America is built upon, and wondered why leftists on FP were disagreeing with your assertion because they also reject those traditional values. I'm paraphrasing based on memory but something along the lines of this exchange definitely happened.

I have a very strong feeling that you're very much misrepresenting the situation. Even IF you weren't, you're already back pedaling from the initial claim. Saying one specific person holds that view is entirely different from saying everyone who holds the general views you initially presented does. With all that said, I can't really respond without a real example.

Fair enough, I'm having trouble finding the exact post, and you shouldn't have to take baseless accusations at their word. I'll withdraw that part of my post.

This will be my last response because I'm not going to have another page long discussion about how bad of a person I am (like every other thread that I post in now). Your synopsis of what happened in those threads is simply nonsense. 1) Union thread: I immediately, in my next post, acknowledged the video after you posted it. You're full of BS. 2) Healthcare thread: What is the proper amount of time I must respond for you to be satisfied? I went for 2 full pages in what was basically a 5 on 1 discussion. Remember, for every one response you have to make, I have to make 5. Where the 2 full pages of things I responded to not "proper responses?" 3) Other healthcare thread: I made that comment because people started with personal attacks, such as: Come on. Put some fucking humans before profit margins for once. I get that a company needs to make a profit in order to exist, but the fact that healthcare companies have 60%+ profit margins, is fucking disgusting. They'll charge you 700 dollars a month for insurance for your family, and then have the gall to argue that you don't need procedures or tests. Fuck off with that shit. Sgman is a right-wing ideologue As a side note, the idea that I need to summarize and argue my entire view of a massive issue in order to discuss any part of it is simply idiotic. I can discuss the economics of healthcare without going into my full view of the proper country-wide system of healthcare. 4) The last healthcare thread: To be honest, I probably came back to 5 replies to my post (I counted them) and just didn't have the desire to respond to them all (and don't tell me, "Oh, you only had to respond to that one," because you would just call me out for not responding to some other "great counter-post," just like every other thread where I go for pages and pages only to get called out when I finally stop responding.

Nobody gives a shit about how bad you currently are dude, if we're spending out time arguing with you, it's almost certainly because we want you to change for the better. I don't argue to just belittle the person(although I have in the past admittedly done so, but only after lengthy, or repeat arguments), I personally argue because deep down just about everyone has the potential to be good, and to do good, and it's just disappointing to see so many people fall for their basic emotions, and lies structured to appeal to those emotions. The root of conservatism tends to be within nostalgia, one of the strongest emotional phenomenons, and it's no coincidence that right wing people worldwide use that to their advantage in their arguments, their ads, and their whole ideology. It's an age-old phenomenon, and one that will continue to plague us if we fail to recognize it for what it is when it's used for nefarious reasons.

I think the right has gotten staggeringly more conservative within my lifetime below and I'm pretty stunned that you consider FP far left! have a nice time doing whatever you else you do with the rest of your life though.

Compared to everyone I meet in real life, FP is far far left, and I live in a fairly liberal area and work in a place with a strong union.

considering there’s a news channel calling democrats demonrats in all seriousness and without any irony is maybe why people feel less compelled to expel liberal values? Theyve literally been demonized

I keep reading this a lot. It seems that whenever I post something that others dislike, suddenly "what happened, you use to be a good poster". I don't have a cookie-cutter political ideology that fits neatly into one side or the other. Some things I post will probably get a ton of agrees while another belief I have will get showered in boxes. As far as I am aware, I've been like this for at least the past 3 or 4 years.

We lost just as many hyper liberals and true far leftists as we did die hard trump supporters and conservatives the past couple of years. I don't care that the shitposting libs got banned. I don't care that the antagonistic trump assholes got banned either. Those people didn't offer any proper discussion and the forum is better for it. I do however mourn the loss of people from both sides like [Seed Eater] as Scorpius says (where did he go?) and that Tory bastard FlashMarsh. I might have disagreed with literally everything he ever said but he was good craic and always backed it up. To me, Boilrig falls firmly into the former camp. There is a significant difference between “representing the other side fairly” and “treating all points of view equally.” Balance can be a disservice to truth, and not all opinions have equal foundation in the facts. Fuck Balance for the sake of it. Posting arse in the name of ideological diversity isn't accomplishing anything.

I have a few beliefs which are technically "hard left". Like I see marxist utopia as a great thing and I think that eventually it might be reachable by far future generations - but since it's impossible right now it's a bad idea to pursue it, so next best thing is to try and make it work as best we can. Maybe in the future we can do stuff because we want to, letting automation handle the rest and fill out lives with a mixture of meaningful work, self improvement, creativity and social stuff; but for now we should focus on being practical and improve what we have. I also think Marx's theory of alienation is on point and we see it happening. (doesn't apply to all work) Lots of people don't care about their work, it's just drudgery, they have no say in the product and their little part is trivial, they don't have value in their company (beyond the time it would take to train up a replacement). I've been reading some other authors also, but I find that often stuff is very dramatic, like too militant or extreme, or even just pretentious/disconnected from reality. Like Adorno famously disliked lots of music/general media stuff, seeing it as an "opium of the masses", any real meaning removed, sanitised, then sold to us as a distraction or even propaganda. I get his point, especially when you consider that hollywood makes military propaganda, but it just makes him sound like a crazy dude. I do feel like lots of stuff (especially top selling music and stuff like xfactor) isn't made for quality or improving our lives but simply as a product to be sold to us. I look at advertising and see it's not to help us but to create insecurities or exploit our feelings by promising to fulfill us in someway (like how coke adverts show friendship or expensive watch adverts show bonding between father and son). I feel that capitalism necessarily brings about a demand for constant growth and consumerism and I feel that consumerism isn't in our best interesting (and I also feel that constant growth is perhaps unsustainable). Like Mandeville's fable of bees: what's good for us (as people) isn't good for the system. So I sorta see Adorno's point However I don't think this means we should abolish capitalism now, I think we should make it as liveable as possible (with UBI, better education, redistribution of wealth via taxes, democratising the workplace). Maybe someday once people are educated enough (to know that they don't need that eye liner to look beautiful) or automation is sophisticated enough, capitalism will cease to be an effective system, at which point we switch over. I do fear that those who benefit from capitalism (and the exploitation of workers and consumers, eg by instilling insecurity and promising their product will fix it) will use their power/wealth to fight back, possibly with violence. tl;dr marx had a point but so do other people, we should try to make the best we can of what we've got right now

These posts are like the opposite of eachother if you didn't care this is what your reply box would look like when searching brexit https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/716/38454248-7b7a-46f0-ba44-408b58301655/image.png It's actually higher its pretty much 9.9% of his total posts https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/716/739a2052-b530-42a4-ac11-dd307b689f1d/image.png

Wouldn't that just make them double-down instead? Especially if they live in a "fairly liberal area" as Sgman said?

Btw, I'd just like to point out that sgman's beeb sticking up for Kavanaugh, saying that he's good to go for the SCOTUS position because he was a 'frat/jock type in college' but he's been doing good since. So you know, that's the kind of great posting we've been missing.

I doubt it The left in the United States is not in power in any area of government, they're actively being propagandized against, and there's been a 40 year long culture war coming to a head. I doubt the area he lives in is quite as liberal as he thinks it is, as IIRC, he lives in SoCal, a republican strong hold.

Yet when the GOP were not in power, this galvanized them on their policies

Because they have a galvanizing propaganda wing that the left certifiably lacks in modern america? I don't know why so much of the left is either wasting their time being quiet about this, or wasting their time focusing on stupid issues about identity politics or whatever but that's where we're at.

There's very little to "debate" over on whether or not Kavanaugh is qualified or not based on the arguemnt "he's been doing fine since". He has not. He has 3 other women who are ready and willing to accuse him of having done similar things to them, since then. If yours, or anyones, stance is merely that "He's gotten better" that seems silly and absolutely naive to assume, especially in light of multiple accusers. We all know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that were the tables flipped, the polarity of the situation reversed, people like yourself, Dave Parker, and others like Sgman91 would completely hold the democrats to the fire for their failures. Frankly, I don't think any of this shit matters anymore. Everything and everyone is too partisan, and even pointing that out gets some people upset.

You being Dave 'oh hey, i profit from this nonsense' Parker suddenly has a few things make sense. Look, if me being angry at shit people doing shit things for shit reasons gets your panties in a bunch, that's probably more a you problem than it is a me problem.

If being annoyed or frustrated by demonstrable hypocrisy is “bog down discussion” then all of your posts are little more than you bogging down discussions by describing the hypocrisy of us and other posters.

I haven't been keeping up but can you point out some specific posts to support your accusation?

You're understandably confusing views with post quality. While I did give an example of a fairly insane view of yours (one of the more extreme and, in my opinion, most insane and asinine parts of liberatarianism) I was largely talking about post quality. You used to be one of the better posters in the news sections but you all too frequently argue quite poorly anymore. I don't have links handy because I don't bother logging this sort of thing but you used to write a lot of insightful and well reasoned posts but a lot of them now are basically the exact opposite.

Well, people didn't know or pretended that Bob the Knob totally wasn't smurfy in the year and a half after the 2016 elections. Despite the same style of posting, views, and opinion on borderline untrustable sources. And that was on Oldpunch, go imagine. As far this whole discussion goes, I'm pretty much in agreement about sgman's claim that this board is rather far left leaning. Just look at the resident Canadians whining whenever Doug Ford rescinds something of Wynne's tenure in Ontario, while not even acknowledging the Francois Hollande-tier trainwreck that was Wynne's tenure. I'm still unsure which was the biggest trainwreck, Hollande's party took a bigger far hit, yet Wynne manged to relegate her party to non-official status, which is as hard as a flunking as the Austrian Greens in 2017 failing to score a single seat.

Yep, we're a "Far left" forum cause you and sgman say so despite being some of the further right leaning members of the forum We're not "far left" by any means. You'll ignore this, I fully and totally understand that, but someone has to point out you're wrong about this because, you are actually wrong.

FP is moderate to moderate-left. I remember all the fucking incredible butthurt-salt from the really far-left people around Gamegate and the first rise of the identity politics bullshit that most of FP wouldn't bend to their whims, including a rant that went something like "FP is full of weirdo conservative teenagers" or something along those lines. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if the political orientation of FP pisses you off, you're probably further into the deep end of your own side of the political spectrum than you think.

We have a liberal forum that doesn't talk about left organizations of society/ideas and we have a forum culture that has forces me and I'd say 5-10 other lefties to make posts that take a lot of extra time because we have to write a bunch of premises and put a lot of links in because it might be the first encounter with a certain idea for the forum or the idea is already known&unpopular because of FP's history prior to the past 2 years. That or make posts that gain just an inch away from liberalism. It's not like we talk about having no rulers or voting for the direction our companies/economy goes or seizing the means of production every day. Even in threads about cops shooting innocents nobody says "disarm/abolish police". Also we lost @Nerts and we'd lost @MaxOfS2D but he's back apparently. Something to get mad about is capitalism recuperating challenges to itself. (taking actual real legit causes and then making them capitalism-friendly) and getting mad at white supremacist or fake/liberal idpol is good but getting mad at real idpol is bad because then you're just attacking people that society is already stepping on rallying around their common issues.

There's real issues to be dealt with, and there's hollow outrage that's propped up by various groups for various reasons and if someone doesn't like it, they're told, much as you're doing here, that not just going with it puts anyone skeptical in the wrong. I think there's nuance and value to identity politics, but I also think we've got issues with how things are framed due to that.