After Brexit.
Brexit is the entire context of a second referendum, so we need to know what kind of deal there is going to be first.
Question. What happens to UK government property? Government vehicles, office appliances, military equipment and the like? Would it be repossessed, or would the UK let the Scots hold onto it?
No one knows. It's been two years since we voted for Brexit and we still don't know what's going to happen to the Irish border, so we definitely don't have any idea how a potential future Scexit would work
I would say Scotland would not be left with much, once the main government and military moves out with the shipyards and contractors, it was suggested that there would be joint bases until the Scottish had a defense force ready to take over but apart from that a lot is supplied by Westminster.
It's not how it works, local councils are given their own funding to buy their own equipment which is a power that is given to Holyrood afaik.
Sure the military will require some sorting and things but this is general administration and very temporary, we are speaking about becoming independent not going on holiday. Not doing so because we have to act like adults and sort out the divorce settlement is about as shameful a way to act as I can imagine and is reminiscent of the condescending woman video I posted above.
People are talking of "England" like Wales didn't also vote to leave the EU
Boilrig, shut up. You think you know how the UK works but time upon time upon time again you've shown you're none the wiser. You're so dense you don't even realise plenty of the arguments you put forward could be used almost verbatim against brexit - something you so vehemently support. Don't think for a second you have an educated opinion on Scotland, your views are guesswork at best.
For one, I put better hopes on the entirety of the UK surviving leaving the EU than Scotland leaving the UK, there is much more cross over in this situation than the UK had with the EU.
Since you are an expert on the United Kingdom, well I hope you are as you present yourself as such, what will happen to the national debt in the scenario that Scotland does leave and the associated rise in borrowing costs among other monetary issues?
Actually I did thinking what if Wales sided with Remain and I was talking someone about think there supposedly be England and Scotland but I trying point user about other regions in United Kingdom (including Wales) with respond from different user.
And I course when I find my second post, I founded @Boilrig disagree rating me for offending his delusional British (otherkin) Unionist/Nationalist beliefs as usual.
The vast majority of government vehicles/apparatus are owned by the local "councils". They essentially run as a corporation that deals with services and property, so those vehicles would continue to be owned by the local governments. Similarly, the Scottish National Health Service has been an independent organisation ever since the founding of the NHS. The budget for local councils and NHS Scotland are both set by the Scottish government. Essentially, everything that isn't defence is already owned and funded by Scotland locally.
The only issue would be the military. Defence is one of the few areas that are not devolved to the Scottish government. It's controlled directly from Westminster. Scotland contributes approximately 10% to the UK defence budget, and has approximately 10% of the personnel. As such, we can probably work out a fair deal because the kind of equipment that Scotland would need for a theoretical Scottish defence force is already deployed up here with our local Scottish regiments - primarily light infantry, a regiment of protected mobility vehicles and a regiment of light armour. Literally just taking control of the bases in Scotland and all of the equipment in them would give us everything we need for an appropriate military-lite (we don't need our portion of main battle tanks and fighter jets), and it wouldn't even amount to 10% of the UK defence budget. All Scotland would need is some infantry, some helicopters, some maritime patrol aircraft and a couple of fisheries protection vessels.
The exception to this is Faslane naval Base. The entire strategic nuclear arsenal is located at Faslane. Scotland is very anti-nuclear weapon in comparison to England. We don't want anything to do with those weapons, and they'd remain fully under UK control. The problem is that it will take a while for the UK to build a new base in England to house their nuclear arsenal. What is likely to happen is that the Scottish government would lease Faslane the majority of the naval base to England for, say, 20 years, pending construction of a new base and decontamination of Faslane. Once the lease is up, Scotland would take control of the rest of the site.
There's not really any massive issues.
You guys don't think it wouldn't be a good idea to hang onto at least a handful of jets, to deal with potential Russian airspace intrusions? Or would you contract that job to the UK?
That's a good question.
If you applied that "10%" idea to the RAF, we'd be owed just over a Squadron of Eurofighter Typhoons. Currently there are 3 such squadrons based at our large, northern base, which primarily deals with fighter interception over the north sea away from London - namely, the Russians, constantly. Due to this, they are by far the latest, most advanced Typhoons in service compared to the majority of the fleet, with the most elite crews.
We have an absolutely prime airbase, with local aircrew and equipment that are specialised in detecting and intercepting the Russians, however, the price of maintaining a Squadron of Typhoons over the long term would probably be prohibitive. I'm not sure we'd want to pay for those aircraft just to play games with the Russians. The Typhoon project is a Europe-wide project through, so it MIGHT be one of the things we choose to keep going, especially, perhaps, if we received funding from the "EU army" that seems to be gaining traction now that the main opponents (the UK) have left the union.
Basically - we could, but we'd have better things to spend the money on. An independent Scotland would more or less have an infantry land home-army and an air/sea economic waters patrol.
While I've yet to do my own research, based off of the posts within this thread, I think this would be for the best. It's still a pretty weird thought, though. What remains of the once British Empire may be divided into N. Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England. Only Circassia, Tuva, and Tibet left to go.
Honestly as an England fuck I don't blame you, I said stronger together before brexit then half the country went 100% fucking stupid.
Yeah, modern fighters are ridiculous as far as up-front and operating costs go. I hope you guys get EU funding to maintain that squadron, because the last thing a newly independent nation needs is to get pushed around by a larger power, imo. I know it might seem more pragmatic to swallow your pride and let them send a few SUs through your airspace, but goddammit that just doesn't sit right with me.
Best of luck if you guys get your independence.
A better idea might be to use the Hawk T1A jet trainers. They don't have radar, but they can be guided to escort Tu-95s via ground direction. They can be fitted with sidewinders and a 30mm cannon.
I believe India was also looking at making some light combat duty versions of the Hawk too.
No matter what, the Eurofighters are useless without jet trainers, and if we have old janky armed jet trainers we don't really need the fighters.
The thing is, Scotland is better of with the EU, as opposed to with the UK without EU
Questionable. I believe Scotland already fails the budget deficit requirements set by the EU, not helping its case for joining, putting it close to a Greece situation in deficit and already holding a massive debt. Right at the time of losing the UK's contributions to the budget, the EU would be allowing a country that would need a lot of funding to operate.
You can fit the entirety of Scotland in London alone. The country is smaller and it's a pretty left wing country with Glasgow having a long history of basically socialism. Austerity could happen with the SNP in power, but people here couldn't give a crap about having to pay a bit more tax if it benefitted everyone - we're a lot closer to a Scandinavian country. Your military stuff was answered by some very informative posts above, but again, not many parties in Scotland want a big military at all and most want to bugger trident off.
We can see. On one hand, I can imagine the EU wanting to take Scotland simply as gesture of "look people still want to be with us" and in the case of the UK leaving the EU, Scotland could act as a beneficial local hub to England. Scotland's economic situation is nothing like Greece's, we've a thriving tech sector that's getting better and better and our research at places like The University of Edinburgh is world-class. The whole "we can export whiskey!" Argument is bollocks, we've got plenty better we can do.
Plus if you're talking about austerity and debt, it'll be meaningless if the UK leaves the EU because we'll all be knee deep in debt.
That doesn't account for much deficit wise, the deficit being 4 times higher than the rest of the UK and more than double the 3 per cent limit allowed by the European Union, as well as then forced to borrow at higher rates, compared to the low ones currently enjoyed by the UK. On austerity and debt, Scotland would be better inside the UK than outside.
If Scotland was able to reduce its deficit before it does an Indy ref again, then it has a better probability of doing well than where it stands now.
What are you guys talking about, what fucking deficits lmao; this only applies to join EUROZONE not EU
It was pushed that Scotland may have to take on the Euro if it goes to join the EU.
Umm, no, none of the posts mention eurozone lol
Back with the 1st Indy ref it was, concern later about not wanting to be tied to a weak pound due to Brexit.
Almost none of this reply actually references, acknowledges or had any connection to my post. Just saying, you've completely ignored what I said. We've already discussed your military issue which tbh isn't that big. Scotland would be better in the EU than in an independent UK
Please no.
If Scotland gets an independent referendum, so should NI and even Wales
English referendum to leave alongside everyone else too.
Hopefully they let the Brexit situation simmer a bit before pushing for another ref. After a year or two of austerity and mediocrity all the undecided voters who were on the fence during the last Indy ref will be more likely change their tunes, and the handful of pro-EU/pro-Union centrists have seen a strong object example of why devolution was not enough.
After Brexit happens I think Spain and other potential obstructionist EU member states will be more willing to fast-track Scotland back into the EU, given the situation.
Better yet, a "you can't sit with us" referendum to kick England out of the United Kingdom altogether.
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