Far-right "Proud Boys" filmed beating protesters in New York - Polidicks

There is a handy video that was posted over in the Video secti-oh, right. This video directly tackles and debunks this "Hitler and the Nazis were socialist" myth. It's 42 minutes, so I doubt Metist will bother to educate himself. But honestly, I don't think anyone should even bother with him after this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUFvG4RpwJI

German Fascism was called "National Socialism" because Socialism was popular during the time and so the Nazis saw it as a great way to gain followers by appropriating the term. That's not even a theory, it was confirmed by actual higher up party members.

This couldn't be more wrong. Despite nationalising some industry the Nazis were openly corporatist and anti labour rights to the point of purging all the Socialists and trade unionists from the part on the Night of the Long Knives. Not a very socialist thing to do huh? The Nazis embraced Capitalism. Even if you wanna argue 'well, in practice', which has no bearing on the theory, then even in practice the fascists were welcoming towards capitalism and the communists tried to operate under whatever system it was they thought to be socialism. They're fundamentally incompatible. nor this how can you be this cocky when being this wrong?

But you couldn't name one. The fact that all communist countries kill or imprison political rivals doesn't help either. Murder is just as inherent to communism as it is to Fascism if not more so since it has been tried (and failed) far more times. Yes I do, do you? It's literally about the state taking control of private property by force. "there is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terror."

That final quote almost reads more like "yeah don't fucking rush this, bad shit will happen".

https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/225353/d2a4ab61-d4b5-4469-8c05-e9d7c30fac25/state control.PNG this is an incorrect definition of socialism. marxist socialism, (being the most influential strand of socialism today) has as its central goal in a socialist society, being the workers control of the means of production. the state taking private property by force can be a feature of socialist regimes, but the very act alone isn't socialist. the state seizing assets and private property wasn't exclusive to communist and socialist countries see: fascist italy, nazi germany Sources: Communism, by Richard Pipes, The Communist Manifesto, by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, and Stalin by Dmitri Volkogonov

[citation needed] Is what you should do. Ot at the very least point to any socialist litterature and stuff like that. I am not a socialist, so in this case I would have to rely on the opening lines of each's Wikipedia articles. So it's Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and workers' self-management of the means of production[10] as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.[11] vs Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical authoritarian ultranationalism,[1][2][3][4] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy,[5] which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.[6] which already makes it better ?

So what you are saying is no actual socialist country has ever really existed and all those socialist countries "aren't real socialism". So you are going to ignore Hitlers main economic strategies were controlling businesses because he was anti labor? Hitler still employed Socialist economic strategies and identified as a socialist before modifying it to create his personalized version of it. No one has been able to explain the difference between the two outside him being racist.

Literally [citation needed]

"look at venezuela" you're self-defeating at this point.

Hitler used socialist rhetoric to drum up support from the traditionally left wing parts of Berlin, ie Wedding. The word privatization was literally invented by the economist to describe what the Nazis did in Germany. Hitler used methods that may have been features of certain socialist regimes, but here's something: Hitler believed in National Socialism based on race and not class, class is a central feature of Marxist Socialism and it is not a feature of National Socialism. Therefore, it isn't Socialism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany#Privatization_and_business_ties

List a number of any socialist countries and it can probably be pointed out how they weren't actually socialist/were doing it entirely fuckin' wrong/failed because it turns out they had an asshole (fascist/dictator) in charge.

Notice how you're arguing against points that are not being made because you're going by a flowchart on how to argue against socialists and not adressing any point that is being made? If we wanted to argue against a ben shapiro script come to life we would go to youtube and spaz out in front of our screens. Your whole rhesus has got to be koolaid by now. No way you'll live to see the end of the month with this much blood sugar. In the meantime I'll petition Gary to get my block function back. No way I'm sifting through one more of your horrible shit posts.

"Since we are socialists, we must necessarily also be antisemites because we want to fight against the very opposite: materialism and mammonism… How can you not be an antisemite, being a socialist!" How is it the most influential when literally every socialist society since the birth of Marx was government controlled socialism? State Socialism is socialism. It is inherent to socialism and you cannot find an exception. Why not actually explain the difference? You can't. Economically they are very similar with only minute differences. Rate me all the boxes you want but I am clearly right.

That's so me

Yeah, no. Socialism is where the means of production are collectively owned by the workers rather than privately owned by individuals. It is a means of preventing worker exploitation and alienation from their work by giving every worker a say in how things are run. Fascism on the other hand is a system that doesn't care about it's citizens. It's about maintaining absolute control over the populace by stoking their fears to manipulate them into subservience, all while punishing anyone who doesn't fall in line.

*first quote* Gee that almost sounds like some selfish asshole who thinks he deserves to be in charge trying to convince the masses to be just as big of an asshole as they are. Also, "State Socialism" is literally not socialism because it ties everything to a state, not the people.

you do know that marx believed that an inevitable consequence of a socialist revolution was a stateless and classless society, right? state socialism was a means to an end, and not an ideology in itself. the USSR never described itself as communist with this in mind

Notice how you have to give up arguing once you realize you don't have an argument. I don't even know who Ben Shapiro is. I have backed up all of my claims. No one could name a communist country that DIDN'T imprison or kill it's opponents. No one could explain the economic differences between socialism and fascism No one could explain why it's ok for Antifa to attack people they disagree with The vast majority of people in this thread using the term Fascist are using it wrong but then backpedal and try to claim Antifa isn't communist (But again, the people they disagree with are total Fascists)

Guys, I don't know why you're bothering, he's not intent on arguing in good faith (or he'd have eaten his words at the fact the Nazis were pro-business and pro-privatisation), as Scarabix pointed out, he's just following the alt-right flow chart of "deny and distract" when the (accurate) comparisons between them and the Nazis come up.

"Hitler said he was a socialist and I'm going to take the words of a genocidal maniac at face value," lmao are you kidding me with this shit you've gotta be trolling.

I'm sorry I don't know how to destroy a quote on mobile

And they "Accomplish" this by having the state actually own the means of production. This is how it has been in literally every socialist country ever. Want to take a visit to Venezuela? Funny, that's how Venezuela managed to take private businesses away from their owners. You don't actually know what Socialism or Fascism is at all. The state is the people according to socialist countries. Again, can you name one socialist country where this wasn't the case? Go ahead and explain to me how you can achieve a socialist state without the government.

"no one could explain the economic differences between socialism and fascism" Pardon me, sir, how did you ever learn to type without ever learning how to read?

I guess we erred when we used wikipedia, too many big words.

That's a quote, not a citation. Although if it was it would bring me back to DPRK Because I don't really know much about socialism except it's supposed to be a way to communism and that those two are sorta similar. Though I guess a big difference between them is that socialism is about reducing the state while fascism is the opposite. [Citation Needed] You know the idea about how happy people don't have to state they're happy, and that insecure people usually are the ones to brag the most? Figure that's the same thing when it comes to being right or wrong.

A socialist state can be a state of the people if the state is chosen by the people. The Nazis were not. They installed themselves with a violent coup because, by some long and contrived set of circumstances, Hitler was an asshole who successfully surrounded himself with like-minded assholes who felt disenfranchised by the current state of affairs (the economy sucked, money was worthless, etc.).

Or I will look at what he has done and compare it to socialism. Hitler had the government control the means of production Actually I am the only one here intent on arguing. You can't so you have to go "Please don't argue with this guy!!!!!" Just like Antifa I bet many wish they could just punch me for being "Alt Right" (i'm not) but since they can't they have to cry and whine about me having wrong think. It's not private if the government tells said business what they can produce, how much they must produce and where the resources go. That was Hitlers Fascism. Hitler also forced many thousands and thousands of people to work for months without pay, does that sound pro private business to you?

So many people disagree with me on this site and I have never wanted to block anyone before. I get the box thrown at me everyday for pulling radical left talking points out of my ass constantly. What nobody else on this site does (besides users that are already banned) is take Hitler's word for gospel and quote him with a straight face to prove a point. I literally come here to disagree with people who have the culture and calm to discuss big boy topics in a somewhat collected manner. Google Thomas Sankara if you can't imagine socialism as anything but the USSR. Socialism works and is discernible in all aspects from nazism. Don't come into forums claiming to know better when you don't know a single thing in the world.