Fox news business divsion host peddles conspiracy theory about the bombings.
65 replies, posted
Oh come on. I was disputing the claim which this post made earlier in this thread.
They specifically brought up how “at least most liberals are able to admit the party has faults because of incompetent politicians and extremists like antifa”, to which I was trying to point out was clearly not the case on this forum. Then absolutely everyone was offended by that for whatever reason. I think you’re being really unfair with your assumptions when I’ve said before in the other thread “the GOP/Nazis are obviously worse”.
Also I didn’t think it was necessary to state the bloody obvious that the mail bombs and people trying to pin it on the left is horrible and bullshit. But I guess no one pays attention enough to notice that earlier I was lamenting over the fact that people I know actually believe this shit about claiming it was a false flag, just like you didn’t pay enough attention to know I wasn’t the first one who brought up antifa in this thread. I shouldn’t have to be the one giving you a play by play recap of what people said in a 2 page thread. JFC.
Also morality has nothing to do with my objections. The problem is entirely that antifa is a PR nightmare. How do you think it looks to people who are on the fence about things or who aren’t informed about how antifa works? They aren’t going to see normal people trying to fight fascism any way they can when media coverage of antifa is overwhelmingly negative. The only stories people are going to see are the ones where reporters, police, and innocent bystanders are harassed or attacked by them. I mean look at what the OP in this thread was about. Media bias is already so bad that people are willing to believe a right wing terror attack was committed by Democrats.
I feel it is important to point out the flaws of antifa so that people can think of better ways of deterring fascism and learn what not to do.
I like antifa but I think black bloc who vandalise innocent peeps stuff are a blight on society and very dangerous
So can someone do me a favor and describe to me in detail what Antifa actually is?
Because I've been having a lot of trouble with that recently. I've been part of a lot of conversations about them, but it doesn't feel like there's a very concrete definition of what they actually are beyond a so loose and vague description as to be almost meaningless of people who are 'against fascism' and a nebulously violent group
This thread in particular is odd because it seems to be operating on a prior consensus of what they are that I'm not aware of. Every time there's any kind of violence even remotely tied to the left, that seems to get pinned on Antifa somehow
Are they a unified group now? Is there a central leadership I was unaware of? Do they have plans and meetings and things?
What are these flaws, exactly?
What do they do?
How do they do it?
When do they do it?
Where do they do it?
And because I still remember these exact same conversations about Black Lives Matter: Is it actually them, or is it just the actions of a handful of vandals being pinned on another leaderless, loosely affiliated group of people working broadly towards the progressive causes because they threaten the far right's interests?
And yes, that is a loaded question
I do have a reason for it being heavily loaded, though. It is important to remember that organizations like Sinclair Broadcasting exist, and they are observably linked with the far right. They own thousands of small town local news stations. They use those news stations to push the Republican Party and their far right interests' agenda by muddying the conversation in this exact way. Seeding this exact kind of whataboutism. They actively and deliberately spread propaganda, and pinning the actions of these vandalizing minorities on the broader whole and dressing it up as just concern for how bad it looks for those Lefties is exactly how they operate
And more broadly:
Who is Antifa?
Who isn't Antifa?
Are there any prominent Antifa names?
Are there subgroups? Offshoot?
Leaders of subgroups or offshoots?
What are those offshoot groups?
Where are they?
Do they have leadership? Do they have membership?
Do they have long term goals?
What are those goals?
Are those goals a unifier, or are they a cause of division?
If there are goals, what are some of them?
If they cause division, which goals are causing it?
In short, what the fuck is an Antifa?
I feel like no matter how many of these conversations I witness or take part in I never get any closer to that answer, and there's been a lot of them
Antifa is praxis. Paint a sign and hold it up at an anti-fascist protest, you're antifa. Donate to the legal fund of a DACA recipient facing deportation, you're antifa. It isn't a group or a club or a party, it's a thing you do, and it's literally all in the name: Anti-Fascist Action. If a group of people takes action to resist fascism, they're antifa. The right depict it as an underground gang with membership cards and secret handshakes and shit because that makes it easy to demonize anyone resisting their goals and write sweeping legislation to prevent it.
There isn't a concrete definition because they're not a concrete group of people: It's a term used to refer to literally anything or anyone that performs "anti-fascist action". That can mean anything from social media shitposting, to peaceful protest, to smashing windows, to mapping out and murdering key politicians. This means that there really isn't a useful metric for determining association with Antifa other than "are they anti-fascist" (a lot of the time this is the only thing they have in common with each other). It's why it's so pointless to lump Antifa into arguments about the left, because it's less than leaderless: It's a massive umbrella term for a reactionary movement. You can be a group that's anti-fascist, or doing anti-fascist things, but there is no joining antifa itself. It's like trying to join "pro-choice".
The people you see dressed up in black fucking around up to no good are usually black bloc and other actual groups that are called "Antifa" because they're doing what they're doing as a reaction to perceived fascism.
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