Chuck Schumer: We'll tie Mueller protection bills to must-pass spending bills - Polidicks

Can't delete quotes on mobile. Okay but this doesn't prove that it's okay to use riders (it still isn't), just that Republicans are hypocrites.

Yes it isn't but which part of his post supposedly implied otherwise?

Because the thread is about a Democrat using riders and instead of denouncing the person who wanted to use a rider, he implied that Republicans' anger over it is fabricated.

Using a rider to ensure that the rule of law is enforced is not the same as using a rider to force other people to capitulate to your political demands. This is "fighting back if someone attacks you makes you just as bad as them" logic.

No, it's "exploiting loopholes whole decrying people who exploit loopholes makes you a hypocrite." Everyone who uses riders claims it's in the good of the country. "But this rider is GOOD!" is not a sufficient argument.

Threatening to shoot someone if they don't give you their wallet is not the same as threatening to shoot someone if they don't stop stabbing children. Do you think the rule of law should be enforced? Do you think republicans should be allowed to freely dismantle investigations into their own crimes?

A rider that makes riders illegal would be a justified use of them. A rider to enact completely unrelated policy is never good not because the end result is bad but because you are definitively stating that your issue is not with riders but with the content of them. Except the entire fucking problem is the riders. You can't be against them when you don't like their content and for them when you do. Have some goddamn consistency.

Okay, I guess, not like Republicans make it easy because major part of Rep's issues are solely for political gain as opposed to also include the reason of doing something because it is the right thing to do. If the democratic systems of the US weren't so shit no-one would be in this pickle to begin with.

"You can't be against guns when they're being used to execute children at a kindergarten and for them when they're used to stop mass shooters, that's just hypocritical"

@ me when you're ready to have a discussion in good faith.

no, my example is using a gun to stop a crime and they're not using it to "enact their own political desires", they're using it to make sure the rule of law is enforced You keep saying "well republicans would say that they were justified too", but that's completely irrelevant. A murderer might say that their murders were self defense, that doesn't make self defense equal to murder.

Ya gotta piss with the cock ya got. If this is the only way they can protect the investigation they need to do it. Playing 'fair' does no good when the only opponent is willing to cheat their way into a fucking theocracy. The stakes are too damn high to play nice, we need the Dems in the Senate to leverage everything they can to skullfuck the GOP's every move.

this shit is how government comes to a fucking standstill. riders shouldn't be a thing and just because the other side does it shouldn't mean we should it.

again, this is not a matter of "they did it so we'll do it" this is a matter of "the republicans are actively placing themselves above the law and this is the only way to force them to stop"

it was let lapse because the house could just call an investigation for anything and they did just that under Gingrich, its not its fault that someone so abhorantly bad was made speaker of the house but the office was so toxic by then because every president had had to deal with some kind of long running open ended investigation that they gave up. I think something needs to be done in the likes of it again but much better structured and more to the point. Basic protections from being obstructed by the WH are an easy one though.

I never stated I agreed with the motion to do this. I don’t. I do however find the hypocrisy of lawmakers on the right complaining about this when they’ve been abusing it. If they removed it as an option, they’d just as soon put it back in when in power again if that’s at all an option. Im not in favour of hypocrisy, I’m not in favour of riders on unrelated issues, but I’m also not sure how you can play within the rules your opponents abuse and at all come out on top.

Shit like this is exactly why to borrow a line from the newsroom liberals lose so goddamned always. Playing catch-up like this is never going to work because then it becomes a war of attrition which the democrats won't win because unlike the trump right they actually give a shit about the country. I can tell you what's going to happen if this is the plan the house is going to tie up the budget based on a mueller rider and the exact same thing will happen that happened with illinois and rauner except in this case it will be directed towards the democrats and not trump or the democrats will puss out and they'll be one line in there about trump not physically strangling mueller and some fucking crazy concession for trump like judas said either way the democrats look weak and trump gets what he wants. Democrats need to stop playing the fucking game because they are bad at it and it's really hard to win a game of soccer when one side cares about the rules and the other side is setting up machine gun emplacements on the soccer field

Then what can they do? They already have over 80 subpoena targets

So we're gonna play the broken system instead of fixing it? Wasn't the whole point we elected these people was to fix this stuff? I'm not advocating rolling over for the Republicans as Democrats have done in the past, but come one we're better than playing this shit.

Not this the only reason this could possibly be a thing is because the right played the left like a fiddle and the left spent so much goddamned money on house races for the "blue wave" while the right couldn't of given a shit less about the house because it was never the goal. I don't know why the left is so good at seeing the future for everything but their own party which is left playing machine gun soccer on the killing fields

If you're talking about the Senate, they made tons of money there as well. It's just the Senate map this year was the most disadvantageous to one party in a century. If Clinton won the GOP would be aiming for a 60 seat supermajority, Dems only losing 1-2 is about the best they could have done.

The reason people don't like riders attached to must-pass spending bills is because it forces the opposition in Congress to either shut the government down or vote for something they don't want. It gives less powerful parties leverage over more powerful ones. If Republicans wanted to pass a rider that significantly affected something like abortion or healthcare, people would be upset and I can readily see why. I don't think this is really one of those cases. Any act protecting Mueller from an obviously prejudiced AG who seemingly refuses to recuse himself from the investigation should be seen as bipartisan. The only reason we are talking about making it a rider is because Republicans have refused to even debate it, for obvious reasons.

You're forgetting the key mitigating factor of 'If we don't use these things the very foundation of America teeters on the verge of collapse'. I'd rather abuse riders to ensure the investigation powers through to its inevitable conclusion and worry about axing them at a later date than stand idly by while the GOP literally skullfucks America into a theocracy.

I wish I had jumped into this thread earlier, but reading these, I just felt like I should bring this up. I actually watched a video about this a few days ago. Despite its title, it doesn't have much to do with the alt-right, and very much has to do with mainstream GOP and Democrat Party tendencies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAbab8aP4_A In a nutshell, the video asserts that for the past few years, the GOP playbook has been to be openly hypocritical because they know the Democrats won't. The title of the video refers to "You go on ahead and take the high road, and we'll keep on using dirty tactics to actually get things done." The problem with playing by the rules is it only works when both sides participate fairly. When one side openly decides to cheat, then playing by the rules yourself only disadvantages yourself. By continuing to play by the rules, the GOP will continue to get what they want, and the Democrats will get "moral victories" - EG nothing at all. The Democrats and the GOP both expect others to play by the rules. The difference is, the GOP expects the Democrats to play by the rules, because those rules mean that they won't interfere when the GOP themselves don't. The fact of the matter is, the system is fundamentally flawed, and it has to be fixed. It won't be fixed by the GOP, because so long as the Democrats take the high road and play by the rules of the system, then the GOP will continue to come out on top - having the system broken fundamentally benefits them. The only way for the Democrats to fix the system is for them to themselves first break it, ouster the GOP, and then fix it themselves. This is, of course, how blatant (or "systemic," huehuehue) corruption begins: by one party stooping to dirty tactics to oust the others that stooped to dirty tactics, and then choosing to not fix the system. But even if that were the case and the Democrats were to become as openly corrupt as the GOP and abuse the broken system, you have to ask yourself: would you really rather the GOP be the corrupt party in power, or the Democrats? Personally, I'd rather the Democrats over the GOP, if I had to choose. The Democrats might sell our rights, our lives, and our souls to their corporate overlords, but at least they won't actively oppress every minority under the sun while doing so.

Ye this is where I quoted the "take the high road" from. Probably should have posted it in hindsight, thanks for doing it.