• Hillary Clinton: Europe must curb immigration to stop rightwing populists
    41 replies, posted
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/22/hillary-clinton-europe-must-curb-immigration-stop-populists-trump-brexit?CMP=share_btn_tw
I'm sure they'd just find the replacement fallguy for all their nations' troubles It's their MO after all
"Europe and centre left everywhere need tougher approach to phenomenon that fuelled Trump" so... Hillary Clinton?
If you wanna prevent another Brexit, cutting immigration won't exactly be the biggest factor in it, girl. I'll give you a hint, it involves the general populace not being complete fucking dullards falling for transparent lies.
she's right, i can see it happening in europe as well, i fear progressives must compromise on immigration to prevent a wave of facism, we give a little now and hopefully we can prevent them from taking everything
if everyone just pulled their weight in the first place we wouldn't have this problem. it's an international crisis and it calls for an international response, anything less is not gonna cut it and is just gonna leave the problem to get bigger and bigger, and the solutions stupider and stupider.
It'd just be replaced with another issue, and bowing down and stifling immigration would validate the half-truths and lies told in the first place. Lose lose situation.
Now consider they are Trump supporters
But why should take advice from someone who lost an easy election to a right wing populist Hillary clinton is actually right wing trash hmm suprised anyone. Thankfuly I dont believe anyone gives a shit about what she thinks in european politics.
lmao I don't know about other European countries, but here we've been talking for almost 20 years about what the left should be doing. With what Hillary's saying, it feels like we're back in 2002 or something. It's already been proven that left-wing parties taking a tougher stance on immigration just scares progressive voters away while more conservative voters would rather have a party that isn't a bad 'copy' of actual anti-immigration parties. They'd rather have the real deal. Besides, this tactic just legitimizes and normalizes anti-immigration sentiment, probably leading to a downward spiral of increasingly radical anti-immigration rhetoric. Here's the thing: if immigration becomes the main issue in political discourse, many people will gravitate towards parties who's main focus is immigration. A big reason why in the last 20 years cultural issues have become very important in political discourse is because in the 1990's the economic differences between parties faded pretty substantially, leaving different views on immigration as the primary difference between them. I think what the left should be doing, is putting economic issues very, very high on the political agenda again. They could do this simply by having new, ambitious ideas, I think. A basic income or a job guarantee plan, for example. Not all European countries have free college, why not go for that? Higher taxes on capital and less on labour?
"Lets not fix that one problem everyone talks about and instead let them think and talk about other next big problem we won't fix"
Mate, the only reason immigration is a problem everyone talks about is because politicians and the media have chosen to talk about it constantly and also in a certain way. If politicians and the media had not been legitimizing retards the political climate would not have been what it is today. The abundance of the immigration topic in the media increases electoral support of anti-immigration parties (research for Belgium, the Netherlands); The abundance of anti-immigration parties and their leaders increases their popularity (for the Netherlands) and electoral support (see here for several countries, and the for the United Kingdom); A negative tone in reporting about immigrants increases anti-immigration attitudes (for Germany, the Netherlands and Spain); A link in reporting about immigration with theme’s such as crime and education problems increases public concern about immigrants (see here for the United Kingdom); If political elites are blamed for national problems in reporting, people will be more inclined to vote for populist parties. (here). Note how these effects on public opinion have nothing to do with the immigration itself, but rather how the media talks about it.
Right wing politician tells European left wing to capitulate to the right wing. No thanks. I'd rather we actually find solutions to our problems and not just try to make them go away.
Yeah the problem is, you can curb immigration or whatever... Guess what, all the problems people think are caused by immigrants will still be there.
So in order to stop rightwing populists Europe should... Kowtow to rightwing populists?
It's what the Democrats do.
lmao that wouldn't stop them at all. They'd just jump on to the next thing to act like victims about
I don't think many of those who listen to the populist know or care about the difference of immigrants and refugees
TBH since the USSR crumbled almost all the European left parties "got contented" ( somehow they felt that it was not longer needed to fight for rights so they took a softer stand agaisnt business and others, while seeing other classic stances of the left like distribution of the wealth or free healthcare as "for radicals" ), becoming center or even right wing parties through their acts. Is this the reason about why the main socialist parties like the SPD, PSOE, PS and others have internal crisis due losing more votes each time. The last economic crisis made born a new generation of leftists, but sadly they somehow manage to do poorly on each election mainly due how shitty is their "marketing". Is baffling how they pretty much stand for many issues the general population has yet fail to convince them to vote for them. I guess the tabloids and the shitty community managers of their social accounts ( which often reach cringe levels ) are also to be blamed. Also why Europe would have to listen her? after all, the democrats would be classified as right wingers if they were here anyway.
"Okay, good, we've stopped them from getting in. Now we just need to round them all up and kick them out!" "Okay, we got rid of all the immigrants, that's good, now we just need to get rid of X..."
In Poland they're like 99% white and have almost no immigration to speak of and after that it just went further and further right with capitulation to fascists. You can't compromise they'll just bite off more.
Ah yes, the classic Democrat strategy of capitulating to the opposite side completely and just praying that they'll act completely out of character and reciprocate. We've seen how well that's worked out.
I would say that European countries should practice more sensible immigration at least. As someone who is born and raised in Sweden the way the Swedes treat refugees is an absolute joke, pretty much throw them into ghettos and give them welfare and then just leave them be instead of trying to properly integrate them into society. You can't just throw immigrants with little education from poorer countries into some area and expect magic to happen, you gotta put in some effort too.
Actually, you're thinking of the median.
Consider how little the average person understands statistics Now consider that 50% of them understand it even less
It would handicap them permanently, better than the opposite.
I wholeheartedly agree, this is the discussion that should be had...
Just kill all those jews to keep the nazis from rising up
I'm not disagreeing that there aren't other reasons, however their recent rise to power can be attributed to people unhappy with other parties immigration/refugee policy as the public has nowhere else to turn.
You rated the post dumb that explained this but we already have countries that were largely right-wing and resisted immigration. They only swung further right. "The far-right is rising: here is why it's the lefts fault" argument just really doesn't hold any water. It's not applicable in Poland, it's not applicable in Hungary, it's not applicable in Eastern Europe at large, and its sure as hell not applicable in the US. It's just a cudgel used to persuade the center and center-left. Do the thing I want you to do and you will win more, see?
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