US fires teargas at asylum seekers as Mexico border crossing closed - Polidicks

The problem is that Democracy doesn't work in the U.S. The man currently sitting in the oval office lost the democratic vote. The party that received far more votes in the congressional elections has less seats in congress than the party that received less votes.

Fewer people would be hopping the wall if they didn't shut down all traffic at the border. The administration has been sowing chaos and confusion in order to deny as many people as possible. They are actively attempting to undermine the law. Did you skip over the entire Civil Rights movement in school? You are not obligated to follow unjust laws. That's how democracy works.

Well people who are already in the US can apply for asylum and withholding of removal (deportation) regardless of their legal status. So the strategy here is the pour in and overwhelm the system, which at that point they would all technically be illegal immigrants, and then once you're here you apply for asylum. You have a year to send your application. So assuming you sneak in without getting caught you can do whatever for up to a year and then you gotta submit the paperwork or you're not gonna get asylum. Now, in order for your asylum to be approved you must satisfy certain criteria. Being from a poor country is not one of them: Asylum Asylum status is a form of protection available to people who: Meet the definition of refugee Are already in the United States Are seeking admission at a port of entry You may apply for asylum in the United States regardless of your country of origin or your current immigration status. For more information about asylum status, see the Asylum section. Every year people come to the United States seeking protection because they have suffered persecution or fear that they will suffer persecution due to: Race Religion Nationality Membership in a particular social group Political opinion If you are eligible for asylum you may be permitted to remain in the United States. To apply for Asylum, file a Form I-589, Application for Asylum and for Withholding of Removal, within one year of your arrival to the United States. There is no fee to apply for asylum. You may include your spouse and children who are in the United States on your application at the time you file or at any time until a final decision is made on your case. To include your child on your application, the child must be under 21 and unmarried. For more information see our Form I-589, Application for Asylum and for Withholding of Removal page. Asylum | USCIS If the asylum request is not granted, they send it off to an Immigration court and give you a Notice to Appear, if you decide to follow the rules and go to court, the Judge can either: Grant your Asylum, or have you enter the deportation process. It's the same Notice to Appear non-asylum seeking illegal immigrants are given when they're caught. It's the same NTA given in so-called "Catch and Release" cases where they cross the border, get caught, and are then released into the USA with a court date. Which critics claim is useless since they don't show up to court, anyway. Even though they mostly do (although, to be fair, it still represents a shitload of people). So, a cynic might say that this whole thing is an abuse of the asylum system, and that most of these people don't have legitimate claims to asylum, but are just seeking to enter the country with a safety net of not getting deported because you're in the asylum process. (which is now clogged up with hundreds/thousands of sudden requests.) A sort of Illegal Immigration Parley. Of course, if you submit the request for asylum, you're sticking your neck out to the authorities so if you know you don't have a legitimate claim, you know you'll eventually get the Notice to Appear. But you'll still have the buffer of however long it takes you to get processed. You could, technically, abuse the application to grant you more time in the USA, but you'd only be delaying the deportation process. This whole situation with the caravans is sticky to me. There's a lot we could do to make the system a whole lot better while maintaining safe and secure borders. I don't think we should allow people to come in unaccounted for, but I also don't think it needs to be a hyper-restrictive and drawn out process to go through the proper channels. And we certainly don't need to waste money on a wall. The whole thing is a mess, and it sucks to see desperate people caught up in it.

True you dont have to follow unjust laws, but you will be punished for that. Like Rosa Parks, yes she violated an unjust law and got put in jail because if it, but because of it people rose up to get it changed. That is what would have to be done in order to get immigration law changed, but as it is now the people trying to cross the boarder illegally will be punished.

Technically, it is illegal until you file the paperwork. You have illegally immigrated and are in the US illegally. Asylum is a process. Once you get here you gotta shoot off that paperwork to the proper office and you'll be granted a reprieve from being deported until your application is approved or denied by a judge. Hypothetical scenario: You're someone with a legitimate claim to asylum, you sneak across the border in the dead of night through some desert, but are apprehended in the morning by Border Patrol. Normally they'll give you a Notice to Appear, but you plead with them that you're running from X scenario and are seeking asylum. They give you a Notice to Appear anyway and tell you to get asylum and withholding of removal paperwork filed ASAP. At that point you are still an illegal immigrant until that paperwork is filed and in processing. A period of time passes and: A) You got approved! Congrats and welcome to the USA. you are now clear to work immediately and can get a green card (I think) B) Ohh, tough luck. Your application was not approved and has been referred to an immigration count. Hopefully they'll decide to grant it, anyway. C) The judge denied your application. Your deportation process begins immediately. Sorry bud.

Yeah. It's tear gas. People like to say Oh even the military doesn't use tear gas on its enemies! Without realizing the entire point our military doesn't do that is because if they did, the enemy won't know exactly what they're being hit with other than it's a chemical weapon, and may retaliate with their worst chemical agent in return. It's to prevent that very scenario

Nice scare quotes. I'm sure if you and your family marched hundreds of miles across inhospitable land to reach even the smallest chance of a better life, you'd immediately throw down and let yourself get deported all over again. How are the GOP and Trump "right" about anything. This isn't an invasion. This is bad US foreign policy coming home to roost.

"Secured Borders" was a Russian propaganda front, and look at this shit. And the "why don't we mine the border" thread.

What? It is unquestionably illegal to enter the country without going through proper channels, even if you intend to apply for asylum. This is not even a debate, the relevant immigration laws are readily available to you through Google and you can find a plethora of websites explaining the entire process. Applying for asylum after immigrating illegally is a defense against deportation; it is an acknowledgment that you have broken the law and will be removed from the country if you cannot demonstrate that you should qualify for asylum status. It's still illegal immigration even if they apply for asylum afterwards. How has this topic become so one-sided that utter nonsense like this is readily accepted?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-mexico/mexico-to-deport-about-500-migrants-who-violently-tried-to-illegally-cross-the-us-border-idUSKCN1NU12A

good to know you're self aware that you're morally wrong ???

What's most interesting to me isn't that they deployed tear gas but they fired it into Mexico. That's gotta be illegal. Also props @OvB for banning the dude who changed his name to TearGasIllegals and started calling people NPC's. I know we are aiming for a looser ruleset now but some standards have to be kept.

I have a hunch that these guys won't care that a bunch of non-citizens are trying to get into another country are getting tear gassed for running up to a bunch of C-Wire trying to get across.

They wouldn't be so desperate to hop the wall if the US didn't close the border in the first place! The current administration is escalating force for no goddang reason other than xenophobia and racism.

Unpopular opinion but borders are arbitrary and human lives are more valuable than national identity

Imagine being such a spineless pig that you think tear gassing poor desperate people including children for fearing for their lives and trying to cross a border because "oH wElL tHaT's ThE lAw!!" Don't know if you've been paying attention to the real world but now isn't exactly the best time to act like the now blatantly militaristic rule of law is unquestionable. Who the fuck do you think caused the conditions they're running from to begin with?

What a surprise, America being America

This is such a wonderfully clarifying thread. At least the extreme leftists on FP aren't even pretending to be against open borders anymore.

That's your priority here? Not the people with a complete disdain for impoverished lives? You disgust me.

How scared are you of the rest of the world

it's not the people who are being teargassed who need empathy and a better future. Missed that summit How fucking sad that you believe human lives to be inferior to some arbitrary and easily rectified LAW!1

... I don't think you understand the definition of open borders.

Funnily enough the extreme leftists in this case aren't the ones scared of women and children looking to start a better life to the point of tear-gassing them.

Likewise, it's good to see you aren't even pretending to be arguing devil's advocate anymore.

Maintaining borders and accountability for who comes in and out of a country matter Dumb to rush a border en masse when already offered the legal method to apply for asylum

Ahh yes, the minority of the people attempting to cross.

Human lives are more valuable than national identity but I don't see what that has to do with national borders, which are about as far away from arbitrary as you can get. They purposefully delineate territory held by sovereign nations. I'd like to imagine there is a grey area between open borders and "build a wall gas the mexicans MAGA"

lol describe what this gray area would be for america. Either you enforce a border or not; The degree someone enforces it largely depends also on how many people are willing to break it since not every border situation is the same

I went off that video that was released from the reporters next to the hole in the fence, you see a couple of large rocks go over and then about 15 seconds later tear gas comes out.

Perhaps making legal immigration easier and providing more resources for people to legally enter your country? It's not just no borders or closed borders.