• Arch of Triumph gets ransacked amidst mass protests in Paris
    105 replies, posted
Something they had agreed to before the riots, and the tax is still coming. The rioters were asking absolutely insane shit like the removal of the Senate. The violence changed nothing outside of possibly provoquing a state of emmergency
They literally had to show Macron lighting the torch on the tomb of the unknown soldier with «macron demission» graffiti in the background. It's a PR victory for the yellow vests. There is no durable damage to the arch and nothing of value was destroyed. Some plaster casts from 1800 were destroyed, but the original statues are still around and the plaster casts had no intrinsic value besides their age. I think this vandalism is benign and I would beg to disagree that this calls for rubber bullets, but not by much.
The president of the center of national monuments said that the damages will cost hundreds of thousands of euros to repair, perhaps upwards of a million. They did a lot more than just punch a whole through a cast and cut its arm: works of art were thrown at the floor and damaged, a marble bust of napoleon was beheaded, nearly every piece of furniture inside was destroyed or severely damaged, electronics were stolen or destroyed beyond repair. https://twitter.com/PBelaval/status/1068937170306695170 https://twitter.com/PBelaval/status/1069154148359290881 "Benign" vandalism that'll cost taxpayers an absolute fuckton to fix.
You are delusional if all of that damage is benign to you. That or you're just like every other internet vandal supporter. A rich kid living a sheltered life.
To say that the yellow vests sent people to the ER is fucking wrong, though. The cops did it. Tonight, peaceful bystander Mehdi K. will be sleeping alone in the ICU with five flavors of skull fractures because he came out at night to take videos of the riots. There's a hundred times more casualties on the yellow vest side than the police side. To claim that they killed and injured is the exact opposite of truth. And to claim that the yellow vests lost support is just wishful thinking on your part. The actual situation is, everyone besides cops themselves and politicians are fucking pissed at the police on account of how rabbid they acted under pressure this weekend.
Unless you're incapable of reading/understanding French then I find it extremely doubtful you've somehow not come across any of the news pieces highlighting how the general populace is more pissed off at the rioters for destroying things and sabotaging the movement. Either that or you're just willfully ignoring it all to push your own narrative. I'm gonna go with that.
If you do not support the movement and choose to support the violent elements that have attached themselves like parasites, then I have no other reason to believe you are a nothing more than an edgy teen. I also have had the last year and a half looking at your post history dude. You unquestionable support for violent vandalism that overtakes a good movement and pushes the general public away only reinforces my opinion of you. I suggest actually stepping out of your family home and partaking in these protests instead of posting on the internet like a tough guy.
Most of the French population seems able to distinguish between the movement as a whole and the violent splinters therein. 85% of the population condemns the use of violence, yet 72% support the protests.
There's no "benign" vandalism against public monuments, especially monuments from antiquity. It's becoming alarmingly popular to claim antiquity is "intrinsically worthless" and that historic objects are basically only valuable for the outrage they cause when destroyed. I think you should think long and hard about where that line of reasoning takes us.
While I agree with the sentiment, I wanna point out that the arch of triumph was built in the 19th century. It is based on the actually antique Arch of Titus which is in Italy, but it is a modern edifice (still worthy of all the protection it can get).
I know when the Arch was built, ye. I shouldn't have used the term "antiquity" to avoid confusion with "Age of Antiquity", I just meant that it's historic (antique)
Right. It can get a bit confusing with monuments like this which emulate older styles.
While we're thinking long and hard about lines of reasoning, let us investigate the line of reasoning where police brutality (see OBV's comment) is justified because of some vandalism. It's one thing to damage (or graffiti) a statue/property, it's another thing to break a skull/break ribs. That's utterly fucked up. Scary what yall think is ok when you get emotional over vandalism. Where will that line of reasoning take you? Dark places.
Rubber bullets or beanbag shots are an appropriate response to a bunch of fuckwit rioters who are going out of their way to cause property damage and fuck everyone and everything up until they are either stopped or get bored.
I don't think using physical force to deter rioters people from smashing historic statues is brutality. You don't need to beat someone while they're down or keep hosing them with rubber bullets while they're fleeing (as some have suggested/endorsed), but as a means to stop the act, I see no problem with deploying rubbers and beanbags. If you're trying to smash a historic statue, you know what you're doing and you aren't entitled to succeeding. Bruises and ribs heal. Marble doesn't.
Step up. I've done that, been there. I protested labor laws for six months in 2016 with the unions and never broke a single thing. I've seen my share of riots and had regular civilians like me ask me to distance myself from so-called bruisers. This came after weeks of dead media silence during which we marched on the streets in a rain of grenades. There weren't any «bruisers» when the movement started. But there were already kettles, tear gas cannisters, grenades and custody for peaceful demonstrators. Sure, it's shitty to break things when you could be making things, but I have more sympathy for people who break things than I have for those who lionize the police to arrest/shoot all protesters. I can't say for sure that this protest started peacefully, but I've seen how law enforcement can be used to cause civil disobedience to degenerate into violence. The utter brutality I have witnessed in this timespan proportionate to how much actual trouble we caused now has me doubletaking whenever someone asserts that the protests have gone overboard. Also while I'm not very enthusiastic that a museum was targeted, I believe the historical value of things vandalized in there is being blown out of proportion for sensational purposes and feel like calling it out.
https://giant.gfycat.com/ElaborateImperfectGoldenmantledgroundsquirrel.webm Check the cop getting a few head hits in at the end. The victim is on the ground surrounded by cops being held down. This isn't about justice or "aPpRoPrIaTe ReSpOnSe" this is a buncha asshole cops power tripping. Fucking scum.
Yeah, I don't see how "tackling vandalism" somehow justifies six goddamn riot cops beating some dude senseless while he's down on the ground, as we can see in the Twitter vid a few posts back. This is unacceptable conduct on their part, which they won't ever be held accountable for. Reminder that actual riot cops covered for Benalla when he fraudulently donned riot gear and a police armband to go beat up some protesters on May Day. To believe that riot cops only hurt actively dangerous people in self-defence and never lay a finger on innocents is utterly delusional.
Are you incapable of seeing the nuance between "deterring with force" and "beating people to death in the streets"? Why do you think supporting the former automatically means endorsing the latter?
So you're just going to pull some random shock footage which isn't even the situation I or OVB described and act like it's the same thing, okay. Police brutality exists, no shit. You're massively disingenuous if you claim that shooting rubber bullets or beanbags at rioters is the same as cornering one bloke and wail on him with batons 5v1.
Soz I'm still hung up on OBV (an otherwise reasonable intelligent person)'s comment about 6 police with batons for vandalism. Coz that person is getting OBV's 6 batons and it's fucking brutal. I wouldn't wish that treatment on vandals either. That shit will leave you traumatised and hateful, possibly with physical/mental damage for the rest of your life, which will go on to effect future dependants. Human life matters more than a statue, even if it's an old, somewhat expensive statue.
The statue could for whatever reason have a value of 1 penny at auction and if it was made in 1800 I would say force is justified to deter someone from smashing it for the sake of breaking something. That doesn't mean I think that person should be beaten to the brink of death or that someone standing down the street thinking "maybe I should smash that statue" ought to be shot in the face with a beanbag.
We're talking about the actual situation, are we not? Not some hypothetical one. The fact of the matter is, as a whole, riot police behaves like a fucking elephant trying to do the dishes. I'd rather some casts be vandalized and millions be spent to renovate them than some innocent get their head bashed in by a bunch of fucking cavemen.
Yeah, then we are in agreement, people shouldn't be brutalised for vandalism. Not everyone in this thread share your stance though. OvB (and presumably the people who agreed with their "6 police officers with batons" post) hold views I take issue with.
The police isn't magically immune to mob mentality, this kind of stuff happens as often as protestor violence.
OvB specified 6 police officers with batons. That footage has several officers with Batons (not even sure 6 individual officers hit the victim). That's what it would look like. It's brutality and OvB (and others) is endorsing it coz they're angry - it's fucked up. I'm hoping my posts will serve as a mirror to help OvB (and those others) look at themselves and what they're advocating for and change their minds. It's wrong for police to treat that way, especially for vandalism.
That footage also has nothing to do with the arch being ransacked and was iirc a guy throwing shit at police officers near a looted store. It was a bunch of cops losing their cool in a situation where they should have kept it and it's horrible, but it's not at all the same case. It's dishonest to pull that footage when there's footage of police responding to the riots and attempting to disperse the vandals directly in front of the arch.
It's certainly close to being worthless, yes. You see, they're plaster reproductions of the statues up on the arch, and they're displayed at ground level inside so you can see them up close. It's no good that someone thought to break it, but it's not a high point in vandalism history.
That video is what a group of cops beating a guy looks like. It's not ok. It's not ok if its for (allegedly) looting a store, it's not ok if it's for vandalising the statue. Furthermore that more than cops just "loosing it". That's the cops engaging in criminal behaviour. We (as people living in a state with police) give the cops privilege to use force because they are held accountable by the law, if they aren't held to account then they're not better than angry vigilantes or tax funded bullies in body armour.
Or it's just a pointless monument being defended arbitrarily by snipers who don't stand for any of the virtues espoused by the monument.
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