7-year-old migrant girl taken into Border Patrol custody dies of dehydration, ex - Polidicks

Talking about what people have done in other places adds absolutely zero context to the evidence of the situation in the OP.

The larger context of immigration is covered in OP's article. Because it is relevant and does add context, to anyone who isn't a selectively blind partisan like yourself

Was this an example of genocide?

Okay, this is bad, but it literally does not fit any if the categories that define genocide.

This is already the fifth time I have pointed out that you didn't address my points. Just saying. And I can't say whether this is an example of genocide with the available information. The ACLU called for an investigation, I'll wait on making concrete judgements until then. The groundwork laid thus far in immigration by Trump & Miller sure as hell isn't moving away from genocide. What is your standard? Would you say preventable negligence, in systems created with the influence (if not authorship) of a white nationalist, leading to a known increase in death rates, qualifies as genocide?

I said you didn't care because the tragedy that happened to this girl wasn't the main crux of your post; it was a convenient springboard that you used to attack a goddamned lefty for using the 'G' word. If you actually gave a shit, you'd have called for an investigation into what happened. Instead you just assumed ICE did no wrong, even when there's no information yet regarding how she was treated, and when there's innumerable cases of misconduct already that should make you question their procedures from the get go. Maybe if you actually made your position clear, people wouldn't assume you're defending them when you ignore what actually happened in order to make some zinger because someone in the thread reacted emotionally to an emotional event. Those three things you just laid out are the lowest bars imaginable. You "don't like" destroying families and inflicting irreparable trauma on little kids who are being put in cages under the direction of a racist administration? What a fucking bold stand, my dude. Maybe if your criticisms of such obvious cruelty and inhumanity were a little more than a tepid "I don't like that" people would actually give you the benefit of the doubt. Instead you run interference for a broken and abusive agency, then act shocked and cry when people assume you're on their side. Fucking spare me your pearl clutching. I'm not going to be pulled into a wild goose chase discussion of the entire immigration policy. I've responded to responses relevant to the topic. No you fucking didn't, you zeroed in on easy post to make a hacky, partisan point. Our immigration policy is wholly relevant to this topic. If you aren't willing to talk about it then get out of the fucking thread instead of shitting it up with your self-aggrandizing personal anecdotes of how great of a person you are because you help orphans and actually secretly love immigrants (even though you almost never say anything bad about the government agencies that prey on them).

I understand, but I don't engage with that angle out of respect for him, I do it out of consideration for people who might be reading and on the fence. Maybe it's idealistic, maybe I'm just lending the bullshit credence and extending its reach, but I think there are points where it can be dismantled. But yeah it's the same in every thread. @Sgman91 hones in on a bad post, makes it about all of FP or all of the left to drag everyone into that line, then expects concessions while flat out discarding people who expect it out of him as worthless of consideration - because whatever argument they're making is not within his imposed bounds. What are the bounds here? According to semantics god man, immigration policy and immigration agencies are not relevant to immigration

What always makes these “discussions” shit is that there is absolutely no way to tell what the fuck people are even debating. You can find it “rude” that the guy is ignoring the most salient points, but honestly the idea of discussing the entirety of the US immigration issue is just ridiculous - you just can’t do that with five people responding to you, you’re not gonna get anywhere. From Sgman91’s point of view, people are posting inaccuracies that makes the case sound even worse than it already is, calling it genocide etc. He calls out these, and suddenly it’s time for the big immigration debate, because he’s getting called out for not giving a fuck about the girl. I guess what I’m saying is that going in a thread to discuss one thing isn’t necessarily an invitation to have a giant discussion about everything in the world. Add to this all these metadiscussions you guys are having, as well as the fact that multiple users have endorsed “shouting down” people as a top notch discussion tactic, and it’s kind of hard to take any of this seriously. I can’t see what any of this discussion is gonna accomplish, and saying someone is dodging points when the points include literally everything is unworkable. It’s always gonna be that way.

Oh, please. I want some acknowledgement of relevant circumstances, he does not have to argue about LITERALLY EVERYTHING, come on.

https://twitter.com/bad_takes/status/1073773580985516032?s=19 imagine being this insensitive and callous

https://i0.wp.com/image.slidesharecdn.com/takingthestand-151008210326-lva1-app6891/95/taking-the-stand-4-638.jpg Where is this situation located at I wonder 🤔

"if the journey won't kill you rest assured we'll take care of it" Probably at 8, this kid did in fact die, and while it's not murder per se, she was killed

Yeah the US is clever about it. They kill people by neglect. Just a few cases from this year. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/31/roxana-hernandez-transgender-honduran-woman-dies-us-ice-box https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/07/16/another-death-us-immigration-detention https://projectsouth.org/reported-suicide-at-georgia-immigration-detention-center/

This quote is feeling relevant again “But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D. And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way” ― Milton Sanford Mayer, They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-45

Sgman1 your posts these days make you sound like a bitter old man.

To be honest, I've been trying to write a response for way too long (like, embarrassingly long), and basically it ended up being long-winded and over-explainy - I'm just gonna say that I think your response on the this page (the "fifth time" one) is actually good. It's clear and concise and there's something for Sgman91 to respond to. Imo your initial response to Sgman91 was way too vague and wide, and you don't even acknowledge whether you think "genocide" is a justified term or not (which is what he was arguing). Jim Morrison might think you're just playing into his hand or whatever by letting him "frame" the discussion, but I think no matter who you are, feeling that someone else is not even discussing the same thing as you is incredibly frustrating.

I read this and I can see certain stages, but if we seriously equate this to the US, they seem to be jumping all over the place. Like I can see how we slowly got through the first 2, jumped to Organization, then to Preparation and Persecution. I say this just because, and this might just be my limited/potentially-sheltered point of view, acts of dehumanizing are scattered and mostly with extremists, and discrimination is erratic and mixed. Not to mention that propoganda is a bit limited to statements like the unhinged Orange in the Oval Office and others, and isn't be officially produced en masse in government imagery. I dunno. There's no denying that this whole migration/illegal situation is fucked and ICE is seriously fucked up, but I can't help but feel it isn't as absolute as opposed to, say, the obvious comparison to Jews in Nazi Germany. Maybe it's the open reporting that here is just contributing to a systematic apathy problem with the US population, maybe its the isolating nature of the internet community diverging news feeds around, maybe it's my own reserved nature in hearing news. Either way, as most comparisons are, I see a lot that's more complicated than simple comparisons say.

The father disputes that they hadn't had any food or water for several days: https://www.apnews.com/cb0a83ec1a57434abe1f0959b086a6e6

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/jakelin-guatemala-migrant-u-s-border-patrol-1.4948093 Ruben Garcia, director of the Annunciation House shelter, said the girl's father, Nery Caal, 29, told him he had no inkling his daughter was ill when they arrived by bus with dozens of other migrants at the U.S. border in Antelope Wells, N.M., on the night of Dec. 6. Garcia also said the father agreed with the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) account of the father and daughter's brief detention, including CBP's assertion there was no indication that the girl had been suffering from any medical problem until several hours after their arrival. "Jakelin had not been crossing the desert for days," her family wrote in the English-language statement, which Garcia said was prepared by their attorneys. "She and her father sought asylum from Border Patrol as soon as they crossed the border," the statement said. "She had not suffered from a lack of water or food prior to approaching the border." Sooooo what the shit really happened

Add these onto there: https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1074052814488383488 https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1074052815897681921 https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1074052819089571841

God, all of this is making me worry the whole dehydration story, as bad as it was, was actually a cover up for something worse. Like, I have the picture in my mind of some pissed off CPB agent slapping the girl hard enough on the forehead that he caused internal injury that lead to the later seizures. I think this is partly because of the recent story about a Border Patrol agent turning out to be a fucking serial killer. With the kind of people we have working in immigration enforcement, nothing would surprise me anymore.

Nah. I don't think it's a cover up in the way you're indicating. Given the stuff surrounding all this, I'm betting the guy fears for his life and so is making shit up.

Stop, there's no reason to make up this whole sensationalized story. This administration's take on immigration is bad enough to be condemned without needing wildly specific conspiracy theories. This could've been negligence, it could be it wasn't. It could be that the pattern of widespread negligence and human rights abuse everywhere else, the fact it is known, intentionally goes unaddressed, and that policies regarding it come straight from an ethnonationalist are more than enough to call this system an atrocity, and not far from genocide (if not past it). As you can see it doesn't matter how good my replies are. Before this and a couple of other threads, I was actually empathizing with sgman more (probably because he stopped posting and I didn't remember how he argues - or when forgets to). Maybe it's silly to expect anything but intellectual dishonesty from the guy who said gay men always had equal rights because they could marry women

It does matter, because Sgman91 isn't the only guy reading this.