• US to pull all troops from Syria - Trump declares victory over ISIS
    56 replies, posted
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/19/us-wants-to-pull-troops-from-syria-as-trump-declares-victory-over-isis.html
https://i.imgur.com/E5slr5K.jpg
Well I guess Syrian rebels will get their chance to get back to YPG for betraying the revolution, while YPG also realize there can be no deal with Assad once he expands his terror bombing campaign against them.
Nah, there wont be anyone left to bomb. Most of rebels surrendered already.
No, most were evacuated to Idlib province. Very few surrendered, as that meant torture and eventual death.
I mean what more did they plan? Hasn't it from the start that the US forces were there to 'assist allies against ISIS because the last thing they want is afghanistan/Iraq 2.0?
No, from start was to aid Syrian rebels to fight against Assad's regime. ISIS happened in middle of it and since rebels wanted to keep Assad as priority, US and NATO completely changed their war goal to defeat ISIS without any other plans for post-ISIS Syria. And ISIS is not even defeated, they still have some foothold in southeastern Syria and are still in guerrilla mode across entire Syria and Iraq.
Good. We have no stake in this fight, empire is a burden on the home front.
https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1075421803294674950 Always the winner, this Donald guy is. /s
Well its not like the rebels had a clear goal themselves. They are fragmented af, their chain of command is terrible and I have strong doubts they could even govern a country well if they were to win.
Things changed heavily just in this year. Ironically, suffering massive defeats due to Russian intervention and forcing all faction to be evacuated to Idlib province, had forced rebels under Turkish guidance to unify and centralise. Only Tahrir al-Sham( previously known as Al-Nusra) is putting real obstacle against rebel unification as that's the only way they hold power over rebel groups. Otherwise Turkey did great political work without being blatantly involved within rebel groups politics. So there's hope still for Syria, but it means civil war is not even half way done. Al-Bashir Assad is simply too evil and too stupid to keep Syria stable, he is to Russians what Ngo Dinh Diem was to the USA in Vietnam.
I think Trump has a mixed view of that, especially since he leads a party that exists on a national level and can't afford to have an acute ideological rejection of US foreign policy. I think he is very influenced by Kissinger, though, and his foreign policy realism is the best we can do. It's honestly a legitimate point in his favor over the Democrats, whose lack of consistent left-wing ideology means they're predisposed to the liberal-interventionism that is shared with neocons. In that sense, his presidency is welcome to some extent given escalating post-1991 tensions in the M.E. and Eastern Europe that are in part a result of unipolarity and its implications for regime change.
trump is a neocon he just doesn't like fighting wars he can't easily win. that's because he is a winner not a looser. He'd gladly jump into desert storm all over again.
See you guys in 6 months (or 4 or 2) when the next terrorist cell or dictator pops up. Constantly going into the middle east just feels like a token effort and needless lives lost at this point, we should either stay in stabilize the entire region with military presence or leave and never go back.
Well fuck, guess the Kurds are gonna be in for a wild fucking ride now.
He probably could, but Trump would be risking being Buchanan 2.0 a little too much by doing that. The reason why nevertrumpers like Max Boot, Bill Kristol, David Frum, and John McCain exist is because he already resembles him. It would also be a risk to the left, because not only would liberals and (neo)conservatives alike would start mouthing off about right-wing isolationism and 'abandonment of responsibility' in the context of WW2, they would start talking the Sputnik left (something about RT hosting Thom Hartmann and Russian meddling in favor of everyone from Bernie to SYRIZA), Hitchens-like criticisms of 'you're not anti-war, just pro-war for the other side', and what the socialists and communists were doing in the lead up to WW2 and Barbarossa, which was irresponsibly aping WW1 platforms on the war despite the rise of fascism.
I feel like @tempcon is putting more thought into Trump's foreign policy than Trump himself is.
Also there is no political will to recognise any independent Kurdish state by any country in the world. Iraqi Kurdistan failed to gain any international support after their referendum and only managed to lose oil fields due to backstabbing from pro-Iraq Kurds. And speaking of that, there is a heavy lack of unity within Kurds either as Iraqi Kurdistan and Syrian Kurdistan would fall into war against each the moment they get independence. Not to even mention what growing anxiety both Turkey and Iran would get themselves into as both countries own sizeable Kurdish population and land too. You literally need to fuck with 4 different countries at once to form Kurdistan that would fall into civil war, while not having any assurance either faction would form democratic government instead of creating new Assad-like regime just with Kurdish supremacy over Arab one. Oh and Kurdistan would have lot's of Arabs and Turkmen people who do not want to live under Kurdistan, so they too would be revolting. It would be a total mess and currently nobody, not even Kurdish leaders, has a realistic plan nor vision how to commit to it.
I'm surprised honestly, but I imagine Turkey is going to use this as a chance to steam roll into SDF territory.
The only reason that US is pulling out of Syria is to let Turkey do whatever they want in the northern area. Let's hope Russia & Iran don't pull out of the government-held areas, it's the only safe haven left for Christians who are living in Syria. We have seen what these so called "rebels" do to Christians, and we all know how Turks behave towards Christians as well. Afrin should have been the biggest example of what would happen if Turkey and "rebels" (Terrorists) take over an area. It's sad how the world ignores the massacres that took place there. 1915 to 2018, Turkey is still massacring people. Don't forget what Turkey did the moment they got a chance in 2014, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Latakia_offensive
It's YPG and PKK. SDF is nothing but a rebranding to hide the fact this is a Kurdish ethnic centric faction with no regard for Syrian Arabs nor Syrian Turkmen living in Northern Syria
I'll take that over the terrorists that Turkey supports lol
This is not good, not good at all. Without US support the SDF is going to be absolutely fucked over by Turkey, and that's not something anyone should want happening, as even if you think the SDF is nothing but Kurds all that's going to happen is Assad is going to move in on one side, Turkey on the other, and you're going to have a fuck ton more instability and infighting in the region. SDF is relying right now on the US border posts keeping the Turks from moving in. Demonstrably false. The SDF is composed of numerous groups beyond the YPG and PKK, with nearly half of its forces being composed of Arabs or Turkmen. The SDF is not just a "kurdish" organization, it's made up of dozens of militias of a people in Rojava that want to govern themselves freely. You've been listening to too much turkish propoganda man.
Majority of sources of such claims come from pro-Kurdish news sites. And even Economist made a big dumb and stated Raqqa offensive had 20k Kurds and 10k Arabs, only for State Department to stay it was 45k Kurds and 13k Arabs. And the list contains a lot of moments when Arabs in SDF defecting to FSA constantly. Lol, that fraudster Hussam Awak was an SDF commander, what a joke.
You're disproving your own point. There are demonstrably a large number of Arabs and Turkmen inside the SDF, even going by your unbacked numbers. Please, do provide some own sources for your claims? Everything I've read about the SDF and seen what the SDF has done tells me it's a legitimately moderate force within Syria that just cares about protecting its own. The Kurds are only a part of it, not the whole. From our own military high command, a four star general, has stated Concerning the SDF in general, Lieutenant General Stephen Townsend in the same month said that "I'm seeing what is probably a pretty broad coalition of people and the Kurds may be providing the leadership, because they have a capable leader who's stepped up to this challenge. And they are providing some of the organisational skill, but I see a large contingent about 23 to 25, 000 so far and growing, Arabs, who are marching to liberate their part of northern Syria. So, I don't see a Kurdish state. I see a multi-cultural, multi-party, multi-ethnic, multi-sectarian Syrian region being liberated from ISIS. Over."[
Why would Turkmen be in the SDF? If anything they would join sides with Turkey the moment they get. Turkmen are as their name suggests Turks. They aren't gonna be killing each other for Kurds, in fact Turkmen have been used multiple times by Turkey to commit attacks.
Because ethnicity doesn't define what country you're a part of? Just because they're ethnically Turks doesn't mean they think they want to be a part of Turkey. Autonomy is a universal concept no matter what race you are, and the people of Rojava have spoken that the SDF is the government they want right now.
The "dictatorship" part is debatable, but in this conversation it's irrelevant. As for Turkmen, they always have sided with Turkey. I am not sure where you are getting the information of Turkmen fighting against Turkey. I understand you have never been to that region or have any connections there, so I am not going to judge you for having wrong information. A person can only get so much information online unless they have lived there, but even online you can find many sources of how Turkmen sided with they terrorists / Turkey every time they got a chance.
Neither have you been there either, but I do know for a fact things cannot just be simplified down to ethnic lines, there's far more going on in Syria than just along ethnic/racial lines. There are and have been turkmen that have fought for the SDF, if you checked the Wikipedia article I posted you'd know that. Additionally I find it insane you're suggesting that the SDF actually wants to and is fighting against Turkey in anything other than a defensive capacity. Turkey has been the continued aggressor against the SDF. It doesn't matter who you are, who your ethnic group is, if some force is threatening your home, you're going to fight against it, and turkmen within Rojava have and will continue to fight for the SDF against the entirely unjust Turkish aggression. Side-rant: It's so infuriating whenever this topic comes up for this exact reason. The SDF is the only even somewhat moderate force left in Syria. They are the only group that cares about all the people within its territory, especially the minority group that has for the longest time been put down by all the local regional governments, and right now those governments threaten to do so again. The rebels that haven't joined the SDF are nothing but a bunch of jihadists who will only destabilize the region if they were to win. Turkey has stabilized the groups somewhat but Turkey cannot be trusted. It has recently gone about massively reducing the rights of its citizens, suppressing the minorities within its control, and restructuring its government into an Islamist dictatorship. All it seeks to do is re-establish influence with the region, and no doubt if it were to win the Syrian civil war it would simply install a puppet dictatorship that wouldn't care about ensuring citizens rights. I don't think I need to talk about Al-Assad or ISIS. The SDF is the only faction that anyone with a heart or a brain should be caring about within this damned war. They may not be perfect, and some more representation of Arabs and Turkmen would be nice, but considering the area they control and the fact they're truly the only actually democratic force within Syria right now, they are the ones we should be backing. Otherwise the only outcome will be more war, more death, more destruction, and the complete eradication of human rights from the region.
https://twitter.com/AlexWardVox/status/1075492371788386304?s=19
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