Harris, Warren, Booker, Gillibrand to launch 2020 campaigns 'in next few weeks' - Polidicks

I never stated he didn't vote Bernie, but if you go Bernie to Trump you surely aren't a progressive. You're just simply anti-establishment, and even worse you fell for the corporate goon instead of at least going Green or write-in. I mean, the Green Party are the one's who've been pushing for Green New Deal for a long time. Hillary proposed $30 billion in aid to shore up pensions and for job retraining programs for coal workers. Did it go far enough, obviously not. Now all of a sudden I'm supposed to believe the guy who voted for the deregulating, climate change denier, anti-worker president when he says he's a strong Green New Deal supporter. Way too convenient and is the exact thing we'd be pissing on every other candidate for. The teacher's union stuff was great. I could point to Warren too and her birthing the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, but you're quick to wip her away for one bad strategy move. So why not wip away Ojeda for someone with consistency as an ally for progressive policy and workers like Sherrod Brown?

This appeal to moderation is a fallacy and it's not going to be a decisive factor in the race. Moderate relative to what?

Yeah, we just need someone that shows integrity and authenticity to connect with the independents, and is also strong on the most important issues to bring out the base.

Is it a fallacy? Why is it a fallacy? Can you demonstrate that? I don't believe silly parables like "The truth is always in the middle", I don't believe that compromise is possible with ideologies that exist on either extreme of the spectrum, they exist there because they do not compromise. Compromise has become a dirty word, and surely it would be horrible to compromise on things like human rights, health, or well being, as so often is thrown back in the direction of anyone arguing for "compromise" or "moderation". But there are areas that do need to be compromised on, that won't be. By failing to focus on the "moderate" middle class in america that does actively feel forgotten, or so it would seem, there is a serious risk to the chance of any campaign for election that doesn't pay some attention to those areas.

Bernie has unique appeal that I believe would win over moderates as long as the party's media arm works with him and adopts his message.

Because you aren't defining who these "moderates" are, where they stand politically, and what their policy objectives are. The "moderate middle class" overwhelmingly supports populist left-wing ideas like universal healthcare, living wage, tuition-free college, green energy, raising taxes on the rich etc. These are all ridiculously popular policies and the idea that someone who believes in these ideas isn't "courting moderates" enough is totally unfounded.

If this were true, Trenton would be trumpeting it from every street corner because that's one helluva accomplishment.

Status quo is a fuzzy term right now given how quickly things have gone down the shitter these past few years. Any Dem candidate would make a radical change from Team Trump, and even an Obama-era status quo would be a massive relief right now.

I really really really really like Warren. She really fucked it with the dna thing though. Depends on what the environment is but I think I'd still vote for her, even over bernie. I've just drifted away from him recently, I love him and I wish he won, but I think his time has passed. Don't really like Booker or Harris that much. Harris is better than Booker but not by much. I do like Gillibrand but I don't know much about her positions.

Obama-era status quo is what got us Trump in the first place.

How so? If Obama is to blame for Trump how did he manage that. If there was a more liberal president the backlash would make Trump look like a mild reaction.

I wish Tammy Duckworth wanted to run. She'd be a killer dem candidate IMHO and would pull a huge amount of millitary support. Maybe I'm just biased because she's local but damn if she isn't inspiring.

Warren has just as many reasons for failure as Ojeda, to be honest I just want Bernie to run. Fuck off with age talk but I want to come back this idea that you seem to really stick to which is that because Ojeda voted for Trump instead of Hillary that he's an opportunist. Firstly, he's spoken in depth as to why and I'll be frank, unless you lived in Rural West Virginia which was one of the hardest hit areas of the opined epidemic and systemic poverty produced by neo-liberal business decisions that both the Democrats like Hilary and Obama championed, as well as previous and current Republican candidates its important just how powerful that hope is. You can blow aside him for voting for a guy whose anti-union, pro-business and corruptible and you can do that for every person who voted for Trump in these key regions but at the end of the day Trump made a concerted effort to go to these places and give them hope. Hillary's campaign essentially flew over them, ignored them, focused on metropolitan areas where the poverty level wasn't nearly as bad. Hell she, flew over and ignored the poorer areas in major cities as well. You talk about convenience? Lets talk about convenience because that $350 billion dollar plan, it wasn't 30, it was 350 Billion, was made only after her two biggest contenders Sanders and O'Malley successfully gained a foothold on progressive left wing policies like that. Hillary Clinton, the same woman caught on camera and recording stating that Bernie Sanders idea of creating free college education was pie in the sky dreaming, turned right the fuck around once she found out it was a fucking gold mine. Its disingenuous to insinuate that Hilary was better candidate bar-none to Trump. She ran the worst campaign of our modern age, made baffling decisions and left a massive paper trail to reveal that she owned the DNC and thus cut off any real chance of Sanders of O'Malley to give her a running worry. So when this comes out, which it did, during the Campaign how else can you see her as? Do you vote for the racist turdburgler promising to give back jobs desperately needed in your hometown and state where the Opiod Epidemic is at its absolute worst and highest kill count? Or do you vote for the aloof professional flipflooper who didn't even give a damn to actually come to your region? Do I agree with anyone voting for Trump? Fuck no, but can I sit here and rightfully say that every person who voted for Trump is a monster? Also no. People were and are desperate, for work, for safety for their children's futures in these areas where the poverty level is so high many of these schools have worse funding than inner-city schools and often times do not get the same level of attention by universities like inner-city schools do. His voting track-record in the West Virginian State Government and comments he's made since he's taken office have been consistent across the line with progressive values. Warren as well, shouldn't be disqualified because of one minor mishap but the fact of the matter is that even before she had this incident with Trump she was already a beating post just like Nancy Pelosi. She should be able to run and she has better qualifications and a proven track record. I do not mean to sound like Warren is not worthy of being president, she's got the goods but right now we need someone can bridge the poor rural and poor inner-city divide because that is what is killing us. We need Union Democrats back, because as much as we talk about Republicans destroying union rights the Democrats are often just alongside them weakening these same protections. Not at the same level or number, but they exist and they have abandoned the working class. We need someone who can end this charade and give rural voters the feeling that the Democratic party does indeed look out for them. That's not going to come from Harris, Warren or Booker. The top 3 in that regard to my mind are Bernie, Biden and Ojeda. They are the 3 that will get through, and I'm including Biden not because of his policies but because how well liked he is. If this was a saner point in American history, I'd throw my hat in with Warren. Either Bernie or Warren. But we are not at a sane point, we are not at a point where the divide is minimal, we need someone can fix that divide.

It was $30 billion for the aid package, the $350 billion was for her college plan as a whole. Either way, that's not really the point. You're doing a lot of arguing against Clinton, I'm not her defender, but anyone else other than Trump was clearly the better choice if you're a progressive it's as simple as that. I didn't call anyone a monster for voting for Trump, it's a strawman, but you're clearly ignoring all the completely unacceptable reasons for a Democrat running to be president would vote for Trump. I'm empathetic to the grifted poor. There's just too many issues outside of dieing coal jobs that Trump is point blank dangerous on. If your an average citizen I'm not going to hate you and for many I can often understand why, but if you're going to run to be this nation's leader it's completely unacceptable. I've listened to a lot of Ojeda, I already understand why he voted Trump. He's just not right to be the 2020 nominee and is too conveniently jumping on policies he wasn't for. Supported Public Option, now openly for Medicare For All. We'd crucify anyone else for this. Now a supporter of Green New Deal, a plan farther left than anything Hillary, something that would've killed his campaign months ago. Was against universal background checks. He's better off sticking to WV in terms of holding any office. But at the end of the day if he's on the debate stage pushing populist social democratic ideas and talking about the poor then it's a net-positive. He definitely won't be the worst candidate on there that's for sure.

A while ago Biden said he will state will her run or not in January. Meanwhile Beto is doing high profile activism against Trump Wall and ICE abuse of asylum seekers. So he is clearly setting up to run, although still a question will he run for Texas Senate again or for presidency. Bernie is still doing his normal thing, so while it's likely he will run it is not guarantied.

An old white man with a long political history but with more modern young progressive ideals is perfect tho.

Bernie's political history is not something to be bragged about. He has only managed to pass 3 bills. 2 of which were to just rename post offices. Also it truly doesn't help that Bernie is not a Democrat, which drastically kills any political influence he can have( as we seen his endorsement played no role in special nor midterm elections from 2017 to 2018). Cortez has more influence than him, just by being a Democrat, despite not even offically starting her work yet in Congress. So really, Bernie's 2016 success was mainly due to unpopularity of Hillary Clinton( and she still beat him by overwhelming margin). With many Dems candidates expected for 2020, none of whom have toxic reputation like Clinton, Bernie's real path to victory will likely be if Dems candidates split the votes while Bernie's base holds( like how Trump won in GOP primaries) or if nobody is declared a winner after final vote so then delegates negotiate for a winner and somehow get convinced to give Bernie a win. However things can massively change in several months, right before pre-primaries begin. Just as how situation holds, Bernie is having even a bigger uphill battle this time around.

Bernie is known as the "Amendment King" for his ability to get things passed as riders

I'm not exactly familiar with Booker or Harris's policies, but their grandstanding in Senate hearings has left a pretty bad taste in my mouth: a whole lot of nothing. Not to say that they're the only ones because thats by no means true but they just dont seem that compelling. Honestly don't know of many of any other Democrats that are compelling other than Bernie. I'm more compelled by the Republican primaries. In my opinion, Trey Gowdy wouldve wiped the floor if he was interested in a presidential run.

do you mind if i ask for an example of grandstanding?

I don't understand how there could be a Republican primary challenge unless Trump is removed from office somehow in the next year. GOP voters are absolutely wholeheartedly in love with him and believe everything he says. He has around 85-90% support among members of his own party.

No I dont believe it is. Obama may have been top status quo but he didn’t create the chaos we see now. That doesn’t make sense. If he’d been further left, he’d still have been a villain to the right and their propaganda would have been capable of even sharper teeth. Obama didn’t create a false narrative about the direction the country was going in, Obama didn’t create the recession that occurred before he was elected nor did he create the situation that he was given to deal with. I love to say “well this is what should have been done here” but none of us can really put ourselves in those shoes and honestly say we’d do exactly as we think we would. In all honesty Obama wasn’t what anyone hoped for but he wasn’t the source nor the reason for the division that created Trump and his propaganda wings in the media. Even left wing media bolstered his signals and made him seem legitimate at times. But Obama didn’t create that division. Why are we already seeking to revise recent history?

Watch the Kavanaugh hearings. Booker basically personally waited on Ford (constantly giving her condolences, personally getting her a cup of water, etc) while she testified while not really accomplishing any actual thing in the hearings.

If Obama was further left America wouldn't have been in a desperate enough position to vote for Trump in the first place. They wouldn't have fallen for his demagoguery because people would have actually had decent healthcare and well paying jobs. They would have had a government that actually represented them instead of big money interests. Why do you think that Republican propaganda worked? Because people are struggling and Obama didn't do enough for them. The only ones revising history are the people with rose-colored glasses pretending like Obama didn't burn us on his promise of real hope and change, and that the state of politics in 2015 was just fine and the problem is solely with Trump, not America.

Right because that’s was solely Obamas fault? Do you forget already how the opposition behaved during his tenure? From the start they declared war and created a false narrative to drive people further to the right. The fucking tea party was a Koch brother funded platform for fucks sakes. Had he been more left he wouldnt have just suddenly been progressive enough to solve the issues. He would still have had very real road blocks in front of him preventing that progress. I feel you are very much changing how these events and issues played out to come up with this idea that if only Obama had been way more progressive the right wouldn’t have had any ammo to use. I believe that is wildly naive and and unsupported. His is bipartisan outreach was clearly a mistake in hindsight and he should have just rammed through what he could have. But you ARE revising history to act like he wasn’t going to face severe opposition from the sitting senators even in the Democratic Party if he forced through things like you might have wantedz and you can say that it would have avoided all issues that lead to Trump but that’s a “what if” you actually be can’t answer.

No shit he would have had opposition, but he never put up a strong fight in the first place. He had the exact same opposition even when he was meeting them halfway. You think if he fought for universal healthcare, more expansive worker's rights, Wall Street regulation, less outsourcing etc. the right would have had more ammo to use against him? What are they going to say that they aren't already saying? It isn't going to land if people are financially secure. And Democratic senators are not going to risk their seat if the president actually uses the bully pulpit to play hardball and twists arms to get their votes. Obama's hands were not tied, he didn't fight because in his heart of hearts he's a dyed in the wool neoliberal centrist and we're paying the price for it. Just talk to the thousands of two-time Obama voters who flipped to Trump. Or all the people in Flint, Michigan who watched Obama pretend to drink a glass of their water and claim it was safe (it still isn't). Look at the thousand seats the Democrats lost under Obama's leadership. It wasn't all based on lies and propaganda. I fully believe if he governed the way he campaigned we could have avoided Trump. To say Trump was an inevitably is an easy way to pin all the blame on Fox News or the Koch brothers or whatever and not look inwardly at what the Democrats could have done better.

Obama-era status quo didn't force Clinton to run the most half-assed president campaign in recent history.

I'm really looking forward to debate season. The last election I paid close attention to was my state's gubernatorial election (FL). I originally planned to support Levine but switched to Gillum after hearing them both discuss the issues. I agree something similar will happen once I hear everyone speak on the same stage. I hope Bernie runs again, not because I'm already committed or anything but because I know how much he added to the last election and want to see his rhetoric in action again.