The night before Juan Guaidó declared himself interim president of Venezuela, the opposition leader received a phone call from Vice President Mike Pence.
Mr. Pence pledged that the U.S. would back Mr. Guaidó if he seized the reins of government from Nicolás Maduro by invoking a clause in the South American country’s constitution, a senior administration official said.
Love me a good old fashioned South American US-coup. Why anyone genuinely believed that the US wasn't turning Venezuela into a glorified puppet is beyond me. The US has a disgustingly long history of backing and/or manufacturing coups in Central and Latin America(one such example); and virtually always to the detriment of the actual people living there.
In that example, the US backed a literal military dictatorship, to help put down left-wing guerrillas that had risen up due to the electoral fraud that the Salvadoran military-backed PCN party had committed. The PCN would go on to repress and kill the civilian populace to curb unrest, and would eventually be overthrown by the military, which would commit even more atrocities including the founding of death squads, the use of child soldiers, and numerous instances of human rights abuses; all with the full support of the US military.
The US also backed Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge regime once Vietnam(who initially supported Pol Pot) ended up at war with them due to Pol Pot's "pre-emptive" attacks on their border. So not only did the US support one of the most horrific regimes the world has ever seen, but they were also supporting the fucking aggressors in that situation.
Yeah but this might be one of the few cases where the US supporting a coup for America's "interests" actually lines up with supporting the rightly democratically elected leader of a country taking power over a dictator trying to subvert democracy? America has a history of doing the wrong thing, and I would severely doubt the Trump administrations motives are altruistic, but aren't they at least doing the right thing for the wrong reason in this case? Feel free to let me know if I'm misinformed about this.
People also said we were doing the right thing when we were intervened in Libya on behalf of their people and just this summer there was a prominent article on the slave market that's risen up from it. People also said we were doing the right thing when we intervened in Iraq and ended up killing somewhere around 500,000 innocent people. People thought we were doing the right thing at first with intervening in the Yemeni civil war and now it's one of the worst humanitarian disasters on the planet. People thought we were doing the right thing when we intervened in Vietnam to ensure they didn't fall to the brutal communists and got dragged into a war that decimated their country in ways they still feel today. People thought we were doing the right thing when we intervened in Korea for the same reasons and ended up killing approximately 20% of the total population in horrific bombing campaigns. There's been the same belief with Honduras, Nicaragua, Chile, Cuba, Panama, El Salvador, Haiti, Bolivia, Indonesia, Dominican Republic, Brazil, Guatemala, and many more.
Man as long as we don't fucking invade or send a hit I'd say support of anyone who's not Maduro is a good thing. His whole country is literally starving and the man is insane. Sure, this could still turn into a bad thing but it'd be irresponsible not to recognize him after all the shit Maduro has done.
In all of these examples there were doubts and calls to nuanced discussion and political solutions just like Mexico and Peru are doing it right now for Venezuela, stop painting a black and white picture. It is and was far more complicated.
Are you trying to imply Juan Guaidó will be another Pol Pot or something?
This reeks of "America did it, thus it is bad" without any forethought to the actual thing done.
Its literally just that. Completely disregarding that this guy is the closest to an actually democratically elected leader the country has.
right thing for the wrong reasons works in the short term but any government that Trump's WH would support would probably more closely resemble Brazil or Turkey. Ya they're fucked by their current dictator but I doubt removing him is going to change how the military controls the country's industry. The opposition leader is using blanket amnesty to try and break away the military from Maduaro, so there's a very real chance that even if things flip they still end up with a defacto military dictatorship.
Those are all wars. As far as I know, no one serious is talking about any kind of military intervention in Venezuela right now, we're talking about diplomatic and possibly financial methods of putting pressure on the Maduro government. I wouldn't support the former, but I do support the latter.
What, you mean financial methods of putting pressure on the Maduro government beyond the currently existing sanctions? Are you trying to oust Maduro, or starve the Venezuelans out? Venezuela is already in significant shit as it is. I don't see how fucking over the population further by further disrupting their economy is going to make it any easier to dislodge Maduro.
I hadn't heard about the gold withdrawal thing but yes, that's a fantastic step. Maduro is not the legitimate president of Venezuela and has no authority over that money, so assets like that should absolutely be withheld from him and given to the legitimate government as soon as possible. Beyond that, I think targeted Magnitsky Act-style sanctions (travel bans, asset freezes) on Maduro government officials would be another way to look at increasing the pressure on them.
I think the strategy is to hope that the people of Venezuela will revolt and oust Maduro so the US or others won't have to go in and "get involved".
Either way though Maduro I think isn't going out without blood. It's just a matter of if it'll be American blood or Venezuelan blood that pays the price for it.
What, like these?
Yeah looks pretty good
Gold is withheld because venezuelas economy problems is entirely manufactured by maduro's corruption. So they fear he's gonna squander the money or run away with it.
Leaving people begging and scavenging for scraps as aided by your own outside actions to coerce them to revolt seems like a less than palatable move, and not what I'd say is "acting in the interests of the Venezuelan working class". You're just helping the capitalist class of Venezuela that's been hoarding food at this point.
Now that Elliott Abrams of all god-forsaken criminals on earth has been appointed to deal with the US side of dealings in Venezuela I have a negative amount of hope in any actions by the US having a positive influence on the working class people of Venezuela.
Maduro's actions have pushed the people in to starvation and destitution. He has been the guiding force leading them to hell.
I'm not arguing that Maduro is somehow a paragon of virtue or innocent in what's happening in Venezuela; what I am saying is that the US has not and is not helping the situation, and is engaging in blatant acts of neo-imperialism, and I am saying that Guaido is not legitimate (the vice-president goes first should the president be unavailable for whatever reason after his inauguration, and he isn't unavailable to begin with) and is only acting due to support from the US amongst other powers. If you want to argue that Guaido is the right or decent man for Venezuela that's another ball game, but the constitution doesn't support him as many have argued, he wasn't elected in to being the interim president by either people or national assembly but instead declared himself as much, and I do not think he is acting in good faith or with the best interests of the Venezuelan working class at heart.
I don't think Maduro has control over crude oil prices and demand worldwide dude. And even if he did, he wouldn't tank the price like it has tanked over the past 10 years. Venezuela would be copping it tough even without Maduro's authoritarian shenanigans.
Lets hope that more people will shzre your view.
What, completely delusional world view not reinforced by facts or logic?
Maduro keeps putting his generals in charge of oil production because it's a lucrative job and keeps them loyal to him. That's why, despite all the upheaval, the military has stayed very loyal to him.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.