Finland's basic income trial boosts happiness but not employment - Polidicks

It did not result in people working more than before. That's different from 'people stopped working altogether'. You could also say that the large amount of bureaucracy and control is completely unnecessary, people will want to work anyway. Though tbh the experiment was flawed to begin with because, among other things, a lot of the participants also received a supplementary benefit that was not unconditional. And also, again, many experiments have already been done with giving people money unconditionally in the US, in Canada, etc, and it does not result in people becoming lazy or working less.

Automation will most likely completely eliminate outsourcing.

From a post I made on another UBI experiment a year ago: Here's an incentive for you: Toss out your phone, your television, and your computer. Like an occasional drink of alcohol now and again? Got some lying around? Throw that out, too. You like going to the films once or twice a month? Stop doing that. Maybe you like to go hang with some friends at a bar a few times a month. Maybe you just like going out, partying, and getting shit-faced. Maybe spend a night or two a month at a casino, or buying sports tickets, or going to the races. Stop doing all of that. Ever feel so exhausted after a long day at a work that you can't be assed cooking, and so you just go out to eat? Or, hell, even just sometimes stop at a coffee shop and get some coffee? Stop doing all of that, too. Like eating steaks? Or really plentiful and fruitful sides? Appetizers maybe? Shrimp and crab? Stop eating those, too. Now tell me that you still have no incentive to make some extra money. I don't know the extent of this particular UBI's proposed implementation, but the idea of a basic UBI (which, with a 250k grant, is all this could possibly afford) is to cover only the essentials: You pay $600/mo a rent, with $150 in utilities? Throw in a hundred bucks a month for basic groceries, and $60/mo for whatever the cheapest Internet in your area is. That's $960/mo in essentials. Using those numbers, a UBI would likely pay $1000/mo to $1100/mo. Good luck fueling all those luxury habits you'd like to indulge in with just that. You want to eat out, grill a few good steaks, watch a few movies, spent some nights out with friends, or be able to stream Neflix 4k on three devices at once? Congratulations, you just found incentive to work.

It also provides a baseline of happiness that companies have to provide. They wouldn't be able to fuck over and exploit you too much because one could just bail at any time.

Judging by the article and what it says people, although not a majority, did actually start doing things, hobbies, businesses and the like.

IMHO, welfare and UBI's main goal should be getting people into the workforce or giving them the breathing room to explore their own business options. One point I may differ with people on though, is I believe people should be required to pay at least 10% ~ 20% of what they take. One example of this being if you were to get government aid with moving to a different area where you have better employment chances, you should pay back said aid over time. Having this type of system where people are required to put back what they take, would isolate, if not eliminate chances for abuse, while also creating better focus for welfare/aid based on the needs of an individual or family unit.

Except that they give back almost everything that they take, by way of spending it on necessities and stimulating the economy, and paying sales taxes on things. My province charges sales tax ranging from 7% (most things) to 20% (top of the range of rates on vehicles), I'm already giving 10-20% just by living, which is what UBI is there to support, basic living costs. If you specifically take a payment from the government to subsidize a one-off thing like, say, moving to a different part of the country where there is a desperate need of workers, sure ok I can see justification for this being a "loan" instead of a giveaway and for there to be a structured repayment system for that. But you are failing to understand the basic reason for UBI: To give people a fundamental floor that allows them to survive without becoming homeless or malnourished should their employment income or other income be interrupted. I know Americans who have hated their jobs so much they have panic attacks every morning just from the thought of having to go back to work, but they did it because they could not afford to quit and the employment market in their area was not producing any more job offers despite them looking for months. I also know Americans who work two or three jobs because no employer will give them full-time hours (and be on the hook for mandatory benefits). Both of these situations are terribly taxing on mental health and constitute a very unhealthy work-life balance. UBI would instantly free all of these people from the struggle for survival they are locked in. UBI shouldn't be about trying to force people to work, because that's a stone's throw away from attempts to tie disability benefits to finding a job in terms of missing the point.

Yeah sure increase happiness but once the sales of Sunny D, Antidepressants, and Little Debbies go down good luck having a functioning economy. I'd rather have people killing themselves and starving in the streets than risk some people not working. Unironically though the best reason to implement this is because it gives people a life jacket for domestic abuse cases, imagine how many families of police officers would be able to get away if they didn't have to rely on their abuser for an income?

Did you read the article though, let alone some of the note-worthy posts in this thread? The article gives you a few examples of people who did manage to achieve something more or less during their 2-year basic income trial. Judging the concept of universal basic income based on this article alone is silly in the extreme. It consisted of merely 2000 people, most of whom were generally in poor health and poor ability to seek for jobs in the first place.