Hundreds rally to preserve right not to vaccinate children amid measles outbreak
114 replies, posted
To participate in society you most not pose a harm to it. If you are not vaccinated you are a walking potential deathtrap for people like me.
If you don't want to get vaccinated then fine, but you should not be anywhere near mainstream society. It can be as simple as someone with measles coughing on the bus, those particles of infection than landing on the hand of someone else on the bus who then shakes my hand half an hour later. Bam, that's me got measles wonder if I'm gonna live or die.
My comment about the anti-vaxx island was not a complete joke. The only way I find acceptable for anti-vaxx people to exist is to all herd them together and isolate them from the rest of the world.
I don't care about your personal beliefs if they can quite literally kill me. End of story.
It's their choice, sure, but they should then be liable for the consequences: i.e. manslaughter charges if their lack of vaccination is linked to an outbreak that kills someone. Is that the precedent you're willing to embrace in your pursuit of individual autonomic freedom and responsibility?
Herd immunity is a collective responsibility and if you decide to opt out of it because Bullshit Man On Facebook says then you are a threat to society. House arrest during an outbreak for the safety of the community would not be an unreasonable step if you want to justify refusing vaccination on personal grounds.
I would genuinely love to see you explain to someone that it sucks that they contracted a preventable illness, caused solely by the selfishness and unsubstantiated paranoia of anti-vaxxers, but unfortunately their plight is less of a priority than the maintenance of the right of an anti-vaxxer to endanger lives. Because that's what you support, and I consider it shameful.
So you just don't give a shit about preventable diseases coming back. Right, that makes it all a lot clearer, thanks.
Yes.
Your right to free speech under either is generally considered to end at the point where you're inciting violence against another person because you're infringing on their rights. By not getting vaccinated you endanger both people who did (they're not 100%) and those who can't (i.e. babies, people with certain medical conditions) and increasing the risk of a major outbreak. Herd immunity, where the number of infections the average person produces is low enough to prevent the disease spreading, often requires 90%+ of people are vaccinated, and given that people who can't get vaccinated use up most of those, anyone not getting vaccinated by choice is willingly endangering huge numbers of people.
On the same train of logic, would you be against enforced quarantine in the event of the outbreak of a very deadly disease because it infringes on their rights to freedom?
this is your mind on burgers
Obviously I am particularly invested in this since I have a very real risk of serious illness/death from anti-vaxxers (and so does everyone, to a lesser extent), so I'm gonna try and keep this as balanced as possible;
What's more important; the right to live or the right to not vaccinate. That is what it all boils down to at the end of the day and you can't have it both ways.
If you value people's beliefs more than their right to, y'know, not die, then I've gotta say your priorities are insane.
Measles is false flag to make us vaccinate like how sandy hook was a false flag to take away our guns.
Yeah the fucking funny thing about this is that children don't have a choice and their parents are making the decision for them, not the child
Sometimes the collective good of society has to come before individual rights, the classic example being infringing violent criminals' right to liberty.
Painting of man being vaccinated circa 2018
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/A_man_is_held_down_and_stabbed_by_soldiers_with_a_halberd_an_Wellcome_V0041541.jpg
You're absolutely right. The children should have an avenue of attaining vaccinations.
I think you can, and I think a duality should be pursued with options that don't involve sacrificing one or the other.
Gonna make one final post about this here because this convo is also happening in the Discord right now:
If the forced vaccinations are essential to upholding society. And society is essential to upholding liberties. THEN I would be OK with forced vaccinations.
If and only if essential.
Some people feel the need to exercise their free will when they feel they can, regardless if it's necessarily the correct thing to do
So it's basically shortsighted pride and idiocy for some
Others are just gaslit to oblivion
Weren't you against abortion? Am I thinking of someone else?
Someone else, I'm pro-choice
Fair enough, my bad.
https://fscomps.fotosearch.com/compc/CSP/CSP605/man-in-hazard-suit-in-a-funny-position-stock-photography__k17893961.jpg
If these idiots continue you could always buy a hazard suit
But for real that is some bad feels, fucking sucks how people are affected by this.
The worst thing is that the people doing all this are already immunized. It's just blind ignorance without consequence.
That implies its the kids making their own decision whether to vaccinate, it's more like parents withholding the choice from them at all.
I think my liberty not to die because some bitch won't vaccinate their kid because of conspiracy garbage is essential.
You guys should know by now how triggered I get over anything which conflicts with the Bill of Rights.
With that said, this is definitely one of the few instances where an exception is justified. There is a legal precedent which indicates those rights are not absolute and do not grant legal protections when it creates an immediate risk to the public or infringes upon the rights of others (IE: inciting violence and harassment).
As pointed out already, refusing to be vaccinated by choice implicitly threatens the lives of others who are unable to benefit from vaccines. This should clearly be an exception to the first amendment due to implicitly infringing upon the rights of others.
The only practical way you can preserve your idea of "body autonomy" for these people and maintain the liberties and safety of everyone else is to remove the freedom of movement of those that do not get vaccinated.
We remove people from participating in society when they are deemed too dangerous to do so. We do this for killers. We do this for people that are so beyond sanity that they pose a threat to others. We have historical and legal precedent for quarantining those that are a risk for contagion too.
Giving someone a choice of what right to be infringed on is a compromise I would be willing to make in this situation. Giving someone no options and forcing them to become vaccinated was too far for me, but telling someone "vaccinate -OR- quarantine" is still not great, but better than before.
Vaccinations no less have no side effects, and creates herd immunity
there is literally no reason to not vaccinate outside of genuinely having a compromised immune system, which many people do
this idea of supporting the choice for some illusion of "liberty" is just delusional at its core. It only serves to improve your health and the public's health.
"have an avenue of attaining vaccinations"
Yes I'm sure a 1 year old child will understand the consequence vaccinations
They need to be vaccinated as young as possible, and they'll listen to whatever their waterheaded parents tell them. They won't be able to make an informed decision at all
The sad thing is, for people like Kotov who can't get vaccinated, wearing a hazard suit might be the smartest idea in this current day and age.
Zombinie, the whole argument is kids don't get a choice.
How about this, we vaccinated the kids until age 18, THEN they can decide if they wanna continue or not.
That way for at least 18 years of a kids life, they can actually fucking live and decide themselves.
And people like Kotov, get another 18~ years to live and not die on the spot because someone who didn't vaccinated fucking waved at them.
Vaccines violate bodily autonomy about as much as vegetable-flavored baby food does.
We're not talking about some cosmetic surgery. It's a harmless shot that leaves no scars or marks and will keep you and other people from dying.
How about we start deporting antivaxxers for risking the public safety
You're arguing that people should be given the choice for vaccinations yeah?
What about those who can't, those who literally can not, not because of choice, but because of medical reasons.
Is the right of choice more important than the right of life?
Kotov can die any second now due to these fuckers (not literally ofc....I hope).
I'd rather EVERYONE be forced to vaccinate so Kotov can live a normal life and not be scared of death every time he walks out.
Choice is less important than LIFE in this argument.
That's the way it is, and yeah it fucking sucks to an extent, choices are great, but when it comes to life and death which this does, Choice has already been taken off the fucking board.
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