• Sheriffs are forming "2nd Amendment sanctuaries" refusing to enforce gun control
    285 replies, posted
classy
Id like it if we could just send most of Europe to the moon where their irreverent stupidity and cowardly antics would stop ruining modern societies. With Europe being unmolested by Europeans, it could be turned into farmland and, for the first time in its history of existence, Europe would actually be useful and beneficial to humanity.
You're talking about a place with countries that far surpass US in so many different ways it's insane
Why don't you just ban him instead of engaging him and fanning the flames?
Uh so wait why exactly is he not banned? I mean buncha weird shit in his post history too and this is just so blatantly megatrolling it aint even funny
It's done, let's not discuss forum shit here anymore
I'm gonna have to reread and digest a lot of the stuff posted here before I even think about mentioning guns or entering a gun thread again. Count me out of it for like two months or something. I love being corrected, I hate being corrected. The age old paradox
Geel's post basically said that the anti-gun side never makes compelling arguments. I rebutted that claim, pointing out that they actually often do. That some posters do make smug/poorly thought-out posts doesn't make those other compelling arguments disappear. You're tarring the whole side with the same brush here if you think your snippet is a proper rebuttal of my point. It isn't. If I were to claim that the pro-gun side never makes compelling arguments by pointing out the craziest ones, you'd rightfully call me out on my bullshit. So I'll do the same to you here: Cut it out. ...Which I've never said it was claimed to be. If you're going to make snide remarks about my post, saying it's "no masterstoke", rather than address the core of my arguments, maybe make sure you've properly understood them first? So I reiterate. If you want to have a proper, healthy debate, don't gloss half-mindedly over the other side's points, actually respond to them in full rather than nitpick a couple details, and don't ignore posts made in good faith out of laziness or unwillingness to actually provide counter-arguments, especially if you're going to belittle those who made them when they call you out on it, when you evidently haven't even made the slightest of efforts to read them. I'm sick of this shit. Pro-gun posters pretending to have the intellectual high-ground, complaining about their opposition not bringing good arguments to the table, yet completely dismissing them when other posters take the time to think their posts through and exhaustively address the opposition's points. So now, you lot are going to start arguing in good faith, stop bailing out of threads once people start compiling evidence for their stance at your request, and stop pretending that you're the one "rational side" on these matters. Otherwise, I'll leave you to your circlejerk and delusions. It's not worth the effort to me if the other side is going to play dumb.
No, because joy can be achieved without the privileged ownership of tools meant for murder & destruction. Uhh, I was definetely born with the ability to speak. As were you. All humans generally are unless they have birth defects that would prevent them to do so. Language is a learned aspect, but speech is itself a natural part of humanity. Not really. I am giving you the textbook definitions of what is and isn't a right & privilege. Gun ownership is not a right. Free speech however is. There's no "substitution" of reality, I'm just applying definitions.
It is in my country, thanks.
Can you go to your nearest town hall and request a gun?
You're defining rights and privileges without actually respecting the institutions that grant them. It's an absurd take.
An institution doesn't grant a right, they grant privileges. A right is something you as a human just have, your natural ability to do shit. You have the right to talk freely, walk freely, shit, find some land and plant some wheat and you can make your own damn food and live off of nature and be completely removed from civilization - all within your rights as a human being, because it's all there for you. A gun on the other hand, as with any other commercial item, requires you to pay money. It's a purchase you have to make, from dollars you probably earned working a job. It's not a right, that's a privilege. Any time you have to exchange currency for something, it becomes a privilege. It becomes a privilege because you have the privilege to be able to buy it. A lot of people don't have that privilege to buy a firearm. That's how this works. That's literally the textbook definition of how this works. Gun ownership is a privilege.
Where are you getting this definition of the word 'right'?
Ah thanks for that, I'll start a petition to change the Bill of Rights to read as the Bill of Privileges. Or maybe I won't because I don't want to live in an authoritarian hellscape.
No, I don't prescribe to the theory of "Natural rights" because it doesn't resemble our history. Slaves had natural rights, right? Governments are the only thing that can grant a right. Without governments, you can do whatever you want, but that also means anyone can do what they want to you. You may have a right to life, but what good is that right with nothing to enforce it.
Literally any dictionary, A moral or legal entitlement to have or do something. with infinitive ‘she had every right to be angry’ ‘you're quite within your rights to ask for your money back’ mass noun ‘there is no right of appeal against the decision’ Or you could just remove the second amendment, because it's one of few items in the Bill of Rights that stick out like a sore thumb because it's not actually a right. 🤷
Literally just googled this, and no, you're wrong. It's not "LITERALLY ANY DICTIONARY".
Well... there you go
And the second amendment provides a legal entitlement to own firearms... which makes it a right in the US per your own provided definition???????????
Either an institution can only grant privileges or they can grant rights, you don't get to have it both ways.
And none of that definition goes to describe how rights are naturally granted, and not given by an entity.
Uhhh. That's really sad. Yeah, they had rights - and then they were stripped from them. Their ability to speak freely and be free was stripped from them exclusively. You can take away rights, you can't grant a right because they are an inherent part of humanity. I'm not sure I follow. Are you saying you need a gun to enforce your life?
Should probably agree on definitions on what a "right" even is before continuing tbh.
You can have the legal entitlement to do something and still have it be privilege. The day guns become freely available to all without restriction to even those in poverty, it's a right. Until then it is by definition a privilege.
No, it's fucking reality dude. If you and I lived in a Savannah 10,000 years ago, literally nothing stopped either one of us from spearing each other to death. What is a "right" in that context? You have the right to life, and someone took it from you, because nothing was there in place to defend it. A right does not exist naturally, just because you read Locke or Hume or whatever Phil 101 book you were assigned doesn't change the reality that rights are not inherit in nature.
The legal right isn't that it ensures that everyone has one, but that anyone is ALLOWED to buy one and nothing can get in the way. Criticise that fact all you want but that's the way it is
Dude, the definition of RIGHT that you posted says a RIGHT can take the form of legal entitlement. Did you even fuckin read it or are you just that cocky and self assured?
Since the right is to keep arms and not the right to be given arms, your earlier argument kind of falls apart here. Not without money to buy that land. So since the government won't give you it for free, that means it's not a right by your earlier definition.
What if I make my own gun? In the US you are not entitled to the labor of someone else for free. Right are things the government is not allowed to infringe upon, such as my ability to speak.
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