Time to choose: UK Parliament set for crucial vote on May's Brexit deal - Polidicks

The referendum is an instruction of the electorate to the government and Parliament to carry out whatever results from that. The notion that said instruction can be ignored in spite of the majority of the electorate voting for it is very, very dodgy. By that logic it would be in the country's best interests for MPs to carry out the result of the referendum (so that the EU membership status of this country becomes like the other 168 on this earth) so as to avoid civil unrest, never hearing the end of this 2-year and going Brexit debate, and to avoid the first time in history that an established democracy fails to deliver the result of a legitimate public vote.

John Bercow, please breathe, you will pass out

This would be the case if there was a single model for exiting the European Union, but there isn't. There's multiple models to pursue. Consulting voters ended after the referendum vote was counted. Tory government has pursued its own endeavours since then. There hasn't been a further consultative process, based on preferential voting, on what model voters want the government to pursue. The UK government has established its own red lines which were not indicated, or inferred, on the ballot. It was Leave or Remain in the EU. No vote on SM/CU/VAT system membership. No vote on EASA. No vote on future customs arrangements. No vote on FoM. No vote on European Arrest Warrant (or the jurisdiction of other law-enforcement implements). Saying they should carry out the result is a nebulous assertion that means nothing.

It's fucking disgusting how close that vote was

He's an MEP. He gets paid by the european union He'll get a pension from the european union.

avoid civil unrest by leaving the EU even if it means going for a no deal which will cause economic upheaval and civil unrest :hyperthonk:

The Brexit referendum was advisory as Cameron didn't actually declare it otherwise. Plus there's that whole "parliamentary sovereignty" thing we have you Leave babies raged about the EU taking (they haven't but hey), PS means that MPs are allowed to straight up ignore referenda if they really want to as Parliament has the final say after all, but you knew that right? Cameron just fucking ran with the result and triggered A50 because "oh shit we might lose voters". Referenda can be ignored. They are meant to be a springboard for discussion, not a de-facto ruling. But the Tories are far too self serving for that. Carrying out the result of the referendum so far is resulting in our currency declining, civil unrest due to us following the fucking process and taking our time to not fuck it up totally., business around the country being left in a state of constant uncertainty. Oh and a dead MP thanks to Leave campaign fear mongering. The entire time our political representatives to the rest of the world; that being Theresa May, Boris Johnson (before he fucked off), Gove, mogg, and the rest of the clowns she gave positions, have been embarrassing us constantly. Making gaffe after gaffe. Just because "the rest of the world" aren't full EU members does not mean that is the optimal position for us to be in. A good number of the MEDCs of the world are actively seeking trade relationships with the EU (reminder: Japan and Canada just landed a sick deal, we now can't trade with them easily should we leave because we can't offer better than the EU does, we're tiny comparatively). What industry we do have in the country is reliant on things that are only really feasible with the EU trade agreements we currently have. Just in time manufacturing for example relies on there being no customs checks that would hold up components or materials, no tariffs ensures that manufacturing is still affordable even in a developed economy like ours. If we lose that, manufacturing over here is going to rocket in price, and guess who foots that bill (hint: it rhymes with blue).

I feel like we are basically stuck in limbo. There is not enough supportive MPs for May's deal because it's too soft for leavers and too hard for remainers, which means any deal will likely never fully have enough support because it's simply way too divisive. There is sure as hell not enough MPs for a second ref and as we have just seen, there is not enough support for no deal. What the fuck happens now? Either we magically create a deal that can pass paraliament, we somehow gather enough support for a second ref or we plummet out the EU with no deal. Or we just keep delaying Brexit for eternity, which isn't happening either. Shit's fucked.

From what I understand, the Article 50 extension vote will determine whether TMay can scare the ERG into voting for her deal or not. Her deal or no Brexit, as it were. Extension will be to the 30th of dune, which is after the next EU Parliamentary elections, so who knows, might see a public swing the other way (if even marginally).

I heard that there are rumblings that if there is an extension that May might end up putting forwards her deal to be voted on by Parliament again. Because, of course she would.

I guess it is now abundantly clear that there is no mandate for ref2. We knew that already though.

They keep talking about "the will of the People" and "the will of this House" like it means anything. The People were deceived and the House is full of people who can't be honest.

Not that there really is time for it now, only way would be with an extension but even then it would depend on how long it would be. It is worth remembering that the party whip was used to get the Tories to vote for the governments position on this (effectively saying, "Vote for this or get the fuck out of the party"), so there is a distinct chance that had that not been the case the vote could have gone differently.

I've always found it kinda odd that the UK would, as a nation, be so hung up on honouring a consultative referendum that passed so narrowly. You still had hereditary peerage a couple decades ago, one would think "complete political power to the people" isn't the dogma there.

From the outside looking in the "but it's democracy" argument seems really dumb to me because the British people only voted on whether or not they wanted to remain in the EU. They have absolutely no direct say in what kind of deals are struck or what the post-Brexit relationship with Europe looks like. Either way the will of the people isn't being acted upon so you might as well abandon the charade.

but the electorate had the choice afterwards to vote for representatives and have elected enough representatives to oppose their previous vote and those representatives have steered towards a no brexit brexit.

Seeing all these Tory MPs like "oh fuck now we have to choose between a shit Brexit or no Brexit at all!!" as if those haven't been the only two options this entire time

They pretended that there was a magic third option where the EU would suddenly change its attitude and give the UK a EU-but-not deal where they get all the benefits of EU membership without the things they don't like. They've just been pulled back down to earth with a thump. Living in a bubble out of touch with reality is pretty much the defining trait of political conservatism these days. Liberals may be accused of having unrealistic solutions to problems, but they're at least typically focused on problems that exist in the tangible world and affect the common man.

In worst case scenario with somehow Nigel Farage suceeding in working against his own country and getting extension blocked from EU side, the only options left will be no deal Brexit or cancelling Brexit, which is basically the only unilateral choice left beyond doing nothing.

Only partially related but noted intellectual Sargon of Akkad has uploaded three Brexit videos in the past two days that amount to increasingly shrill screeching over the Brexit situation, with the last one amounting to "Well we are going to have to pay a lot of money for a no-deal brexit but it's our only choice at this point because any deal we make with the EU will make us a vassal state". A pretty far cry from what the pro-leave folks were saying when this shit started.

She's just not giving up https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47564793

Ffs, yet a second referendum is undemocratic?

Gee, how come the PM gets to repeate the same vote three times, but I only get one lousy referendum?

How many times do we have to teach you this lesson, PM?

We live in incredible times. Under normal circumstances losing by two of greatest margins in political history would result in a resignation. Yet not only is she still PM, but she's putting the bill back up for vote again.

Something is spooking me about this whole business with Farage and the gang of Russian shills trying to sabotage the A50 extension in Italy. During WW2 it's known that former King Edward VIII lobbied Hitler to offer the UK a surrender with Edward's reward being that he would become King again as essentially a vassal of Hitler. Now we have this oddly striking resemblance of the traitorous failed King running around Europe negotiating with fascists to force Britain into disaster for personal gain ie his copious bets on No Deal taking place, not to mention his potential Russian keepers being pleased. I am beginning to believe in reincarnation.

This was such a huge point of argument anytime Boilrig tried to invent an excuse to justify why a second referendum Leave would very probably lose was "undemocratic" (that's right, sampling the people for their opinion a second time is undemocratic) that I almost wish he hadn't gotten himself perma'd so he could justify May trying the same vote over and over. Almost.

https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/203372/30c919c7-9649-498e-ba5e-09bea7ab1c2c/image.png So first they say they would back a second referendum, but now they're saying they won't???

They are supporting a second referendum. To vote on it now would mean that it would never pass and they want to focus on extending article 50 and getting that passed. no fluff. The people's vote campaign are also not supporting a vote for a second referendum now for the same reasons. Better to vote when you have a much better chance for it to go through. Putting it up for vote has unfortunately put people in an uncomfortable situation. https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/203662/16c3c1f6-c000-47cd-a07d-568a488954e8/image.png

If that is indeed the case then it makes their decision to say they'd back it the other day seem less about wanting to give the public one last chance to turn this around and more just to stop more of their MPs from going to the Independent Group