Time to choose: UK Parliament set for crucial vote on May's Brexit deal - Polidicks

No. This is not how negotiations work. I don't know how you people can even make this argument in good faith. Here's the FACTS. The UK had a special position in the EU, and had more leverage over the EU than most individual countries in the EU. The UK voted to leave the EU based on misinformation, and russian interference. The UK, by voting to leave, was giving up it's special position, and it's leverage over the EU. When it came time to negotiate a deal as to how to leave, the UK had already surrendered it's leverage. That means when the EU said "This is the best we can do for you" the UK had already GIVEN UP IT'S NEGOTIATING POWER. How the fuck do you people not get this? It's literally a view point derived from ignorance, and you don't want to inform yourself.

congratulations to the piece of shit TIG party for driving a stake through a genuine shot at a second referendum. as if it wasn't clear already from their voting records, they're a bunch of cunts more interested in undermining opposition leadership than they are forming any coherent platform or doing anything in the interests of the people.

Can we please just have a coup or something to break the deadlock already, I feel like we've been going in circles for the last few months. I'm joking, of course, but this is agonizing to watch.

A And who's responsible for that? Our current incompetent government of the Tories. Nothing to do with the EU or Brexit. Brexit's been the cause of business moving their HQs overseas to the EU, it is not the cause of wage stagnation and a general increase in poverty. You're entirely correct. Why would they budge? Why would they let themselves be taken advantage of? It's not up to the EU to figure out how the UK are going to work this unrealistic and unworkable deal TM is putting forward. Again, I don't understand why you think this is the EU's problem and not the UK's. The only deal that fulfills what you want - not causing problems with jobs - is the deal which basicallly puts us back in the EU without any of the special treatment or say we had (therefore making the tabloid's arguments actually true at that point) , so logically, we should not go through with any deal at all and revoke A50.

What little faith I had in the UK Government is fast approaching nil.

I agree with most of those points, but rather I feel that the EU is also culpable for wage stagnation and austerity within this country and abroad - you're right though this government is exceedingly great at austerity. The way I see it the EU CAN make some flexible changes in the negotiations but didn't either because it has too many countries involved and was therefore near impossible to come up with a good deal under the circumstances + the EU would rather keep every country attached so as to prevent exits of other countries, whatever the case may be, we got May's deal out of it. Now whilst I don't particularly want May's... deal, it does seem to be nearly the only option left on the table than either rejecting A50 which not everyone will agree with and a no deal which barely anyone will agree with but is still within possibility, and of these 3 choices we'll get to see how that plays out. You make some good points, everyone does in this thread so far - well except for people calling for bloody revolutions and seizing government control, if an effective protest existed to prevent this or offer up a fourth or fifth option then i'm sure the government would have to listen then as well.

so the EU should not represent the other 27 countries in it and craft something that it knows might not pass muster within its own caucus and britain is not at fault somehow for not being realistic about this?

It turns out the only thing we're actually good at is blaming other people for our fuck ups.

I'm with you but you should note that the EU's default economic position is austerity. The EUs terrible arbitrary economic rules and it's appalling handling of the Euro should be criticised by everyone. The EU fucking sucks, but only because the prevailing system fucking sucks. It's generally a force for good given the context and the politics we live under. In an ideal world it wouldn't need to exist as it does.

Indeed, but it should also be noted that the austerity that we, the British people, are experiencing is entirely self-inflicted and a matter of our own policy.

The issue with flexibility isn't with the EU, its the UK that has a bunch of dumb "Red Lines" that they refuse to cross which automatically restricts the amount of negotiating that can be done because we insist on preferential treatment from an organisation we've just decided to walk away from. They don't need to give us shit, especially not when we throw everything back in their faces because our negotiating position makes no sense.

I feel like britain's own dogmatic approach to crippling austarity and privatization might have something to do with the EU's own default position there as well. You're arguing like the EU is an independant variable from Britain but from its beginning Britain has been a massive part of the EU's policy and discourse.

https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/165/2a3f3eb3-c3db-4abd-8dcd-4d2b8d3c9539/image.png

IDK personally I see it like this: The EU is a collection of states. If the EU has to obey england, all the member states have to effectively too. Its literally many vs one. The collection of states making big changes to laws because one state wants it is not gonna happen without a lot of resistance. Other than that totally agree

I don't know if it worth a thread but: Conseil européen France is ready to oppose alone if necessary to a request for postponement of the Brexit date which would not be justified, opening the possibility of an exit without the agreement of the United Kingdom of the European Union.

Leave voters deserve a no-deal and all the consequences that come with it tbh

HELL YEAH, LETS JUST FUCK UP THE COUNTRY AND IGNORE THE OTHER HALF WHO DIDN'T WANT ANY OF THIS SHIT. Loving that logic there.

I didn't say that non-leave voters deserve it.

Somehow leavers argue they want to respect the will of the people while knowing very well that if the 2nd referendum is held, brexit would lose almost certainely. And why would it lose? Because now people know what a post brexit world is, and the lies of tories and ukip have been torn apart. True consent doesn't exist without real awareness of consequences. Most people who wanted brexit had no idea what being in the EU vs not being in the EU meant, and that becomes obvious every single time you interact with them. They did no research, and voted based on lies fed by corrupt conservatives. This is why you don't do referendums on complex important issues with immense ramification on everything else, especialy in the post fact age of social media misinformation and manipulation. Yea if you ask me to vote "do you want candy, y/n" and promise me it's candy when in reality it's filled uncurable slow killing poison, I'm likely to vote yes even though it's a terrible idea. Every single leavers who still argues this 2yo vote means anything are just dishonest and knows it. Nobody voted on what brexit is today, and yet what brexit is today was always the only possible option according to the UK's demands.

Holy shit my fucking sides https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1108149985948983296?s=09

I get what they're trying to say though. Nothing would please me more than to give leave voters exactly what they voted for if it weren't for the fact that an incredible number of people who didn't vote for it would also have to suffer the consequences.

Honestly when I woke up to the results of the ref in 2016 I had many thoughts of both despair and anger at what seemed like a strong surge of xenophobia had come crawling out of the woodwork. I kept thinking "let them have their extreme brexit, that'll show us all" but in reality I have too many close friends, born in European countries, that will be negatively affected by any form of Brexit. No matter how many promises the Tories make to protect the rights of EU citizens, after Windrush I cannot trust them at all. Unless you are super rich or have a way of benefiting from Brexit finacially, we are all going to be fucked.

Send all leave voters to Sealand, problem solved

https://edition.cnn.com/uk/live-news/brexit-delay-latest-gbr-intl/index.html 3 month delay asked. May confirms request for Brexit delay until June 30 Theresa May has told the House of Commons that the delay she has requested from the European Union will extend the Brexit process until June 30. "I am not prepared to delay Brexit any further than the 30th June," the Prime Minister said. Taking part in May's European elections would be unacceptable, and would not be in anyone's interest, she added.

Sounds like they'll sabotage their EU relations by not taking part in the EU elections. Then, come June 30 they can claim the EU isn't doing anything for them.

"Please stop this bus, or at least drive slower" "no, you wanted this"

Having read May's letter it honestly looks like she is trying to shift the blame for the lack of a deal on Parliament, as though it is their fault and their fault alone that we need an extension and that she is sure that she can get them to vote in favour of her deal if they give her time to do another vote on it.

Someone should inform her that her actions fit the definition of insanity.

The EU's response will simply be "lol no".

I have BBC News going on in the background whilst I work on some stuff, a quick update came on from the EU pretty much saying that, well, they'd need to know what the fuck May is wanting to do with an extension but as it stands, unless May can really explain herself to them tomorrow there will be no extension and no deal!