• Israeli Soldiers Shoot Bound, Blindfolded Palestinian Teen Trying to Flee
    26 replies, posted
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israeli-soldiers-shoot-bound-blindfolded-palestinian-teen-trying-to-flee-1.7151104 Israeli soldiers shot on Thursday a restrained Palestinian teenager they had detained for suspected stone-throwing as he was attempting to flee, although he was blindfolded and handcuffed. The soldiers pursued the detainee near the Palestinian village of Tekoa in the West Bank. At the time of the shooting, the suspect was blindfolded and handcuffed, while he made an attempt to flee. The suspect was kept detained at the scene even after he had been shot, however, after clashes between soldiers and Palestinians at the scene, the Palestinians evacuated the suspect to receive medical treatment.
Hold. These. Men. Accountable. If their superiors want to defend them, hold them accountable too.
Fucking nazis. The irony is not lost on me
Can anyone from Israel tell us what the public sentiment on this sort of thing is?
the general census that the israeli left is upset, most people just shrug shoulders and say shouldnt have done that but don't do anything, trusting the army to hand out a punishment (which it usually does), far right rejoices. There was one case where an Israeli soldier executed a Palestinian terrorist who had injured his friend but had already been neutralized and the soldier was punished with a few months in prison but the public sentiment was with him.
If meaningful punishment was the norm rather than the solution to public outcry after photos leak, this wouldn't keep happening. The government is complicit in its inaction.
meaningful punishment is the norm though, it's just not publicized.
Does a few months in prison for summary execution fall under meaningful punishment
HAH
Do you actually have any evidence for this or are you literally talking out your ass?
Hey come on now guys this was a suspected stone thrower, you can't risk a monster like that getting away.
It isn't close to meaningful enough if soldiers keep doing this shit regardless.
who wants to bet the soldiers involved were conscripts
this plays a bigger part in things like this happening than people want to admit. no matter how strict the punishments on these cases, they will keep happening, because giving kids guns and combat armor and sending them to do the role of an occupying military force in an area where they are visibly hated - and expecting them not to be stressed out and jumpy or to get a power trip from this asymmetry in legal responsibility - is absurd. not to mention that these people are usually still immature mentally and also perceived as children by their parents (after all, the moment you graduate from school you are conscripted, one can hardly expect you to grow up in such a small time period) - so that you will constantly hear calls of "we must protect and support our children who keep us safe", even as they take the lives of other children. nowhere is this absurdity better captured than the fact that while on one hand we expect these people to be mature enough to use a gun responsibly and take lives, some pubs refuse them entry if they are below the age of 21 - an amusing superposition of the assumption of both immaturity and responsibility.
If it's the norm then why do Israeli soldiers keep doing shit like this? Really intensifies that thinking emoji.
Newb answers it well in the post right above yours no matter how strict the punishments on these cases, they will keep happening, because giving kids guns and combat armor and sending them to do the role of an occupying military force in an area where they are visibly hated - and expecting them not to be stressed out and jumpy or to get a power trip from this asymmetry in legal responsibility - is absurd. not to mention that these people are usually still immature mentally and also perceived as children by their parents (after all, the moment you graduate from school you are conscripted, one can hardly expect you to grow up in such a small time period) - so that you will constantly hear calls of "we must protect and support our children who keep us safe", even as they take the lives of other children. nowhere is this absurdity better captured than the fact that while on one hand we expect these people to be mature enough to use a gun responsibly and take lives, some pubs refuse them entry if they are below the age of 21 - an amusing superposition of the assumption of both immaturity and responsibility. The IDF doesn't release the results of its military courts publicly but I've talked to soldiers who said that shooters that are unjustified generally spend a substantial time in prison + get demoted heavily. The courts decided to charge him with manslaughter which I personally disagree with. Considering the charge, 9 months in prison + time already served in detention waiting for the trial + severe demotion seems fair.
If you disagree with the manslaughter charge (assuming and hoping you mean the charge is too light) why would you call the punishment "meaningful" in the first place?
Remember. Hating the country and the goverment does not mean you hate the people and stuff. But seriously holy shit this is fucked.
Shooting at someone who presented no threat to you or anyone else would usually be murder. 9 months in prison and demotion is absurd.
Because in the vast majority of cases, the punishments are meaningful, Azaria's case is only special because politicians got involved and his court hearing was in public. The public had a lot of sympathy for Azaria.
Sooo in the only actual example you gave us, summary execution is charged as measly "manslaughter". Other than that, all you have is your buddies' word that "oh yeah yeah, it's definitely taken seriously and all". And we're supposed to be convinced that soldiers guilty of abuse receive meaningful punishment?
So how am I supposed to gain confidential military information? The only other example I remember is this one: https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4843424,00.html The Israeli military said Thursday it has disciplined three soldiers after a video emerged that seemed to show them hurling a stun grenade at Palestinian men smoking a water pipe in the northern West Bank. In the video, captured by a surveillance camera, an Israeli military jeep pulls up to the four Palestinians, stops briefly, then drives away as a stun grenade explodes in the frame, sending the Palestinians fleeing. The military said a platoon sergeant was sent to jail for 10 days and two other soldiers were also disciplined for acting "contrary to military standards." If they punish that way for a drive by flashbang then it's not unreasonable to think they would punish hard for a murder.
Except for all the history of the IDF and Israeli soldiers doing this, regardless of the "consequence" , sure. If they were punishing hard for murder, as you say we must believe you, then why is this a repeated kind of incident, year after year?
And they wonder that some throw rocks at them.
So in other words your statements are completely unsubstantiated. Good argument 10/10
So you confirm that you're talking completely out of your ass when you say that soldiers are punished meaningfully?
If I blindfold, handcuff, and terrorize a teenager to the point he tries to flee then shoot him in the back as he does so AND THEN refuse to provide medical treatment immediately afterwards I'd get a dinner date with the local executioner. Yet these soldiers will probably just get a slap-on-the-wrist penalty that's more for show than to actually penalize them for the same cruel act. Meaningful punishment does not exist in these cases.
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