Alabama's Immigration Law Passes (Or, Jim Crow for the Twenty First Century!)
198 replies, posted
[QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;30505905]
No, it does not. [url]http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/does-immigration-cost-jobs/[/url][/QUOTE]
it causes arguments
:smith:
[QUOTE=analrapist;30505931]Immigration systems are like that in virtually every country worth going to.
If you think the immigration system in the USA is bad, you've obviously never looked into the possibility of immigrating to a Scandinavian country.[/QUOTE]
I don't care if they're as bad. Just because they're all like that doesn't make it right.
[QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;30505930][url]http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/does-immigration-cost-jobs/[/url]
[url]http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/does-immigration-cost-jobs/[/url]
[url]http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/does-immigration-cost-jobs/[/url]
[url]http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/does-immigration-cost-jobs/[/url]
[url]http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/does-immigration-cost-jobs/[/url][/QUOTE]
Your argument is invalid. They break laws, they take money, and they take (some) jobs.
I bet people who lost jobs because if them would disagree with you.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];30505974']Your argument is invalid. They break laws, they take money, and they take (some) jobs.
[/QUOTE]
Well so does everybody. I'm going to stay neutral on this one. I can't decide.
[QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;30505930][url]http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/does-immigration-cost-jobs/[/url][/QUOTE]
Horse shit study is horse shit.
I agree that legal immigration should be easier, but that does not make it OK to break the law.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];30505974']Your argument is invalid. They break laws, they take money, and they take (some) jobs.
I bet people who lost jobs because if them would disagree with you.[/QUOTE]
"Legals" break laws, take money, and take (some) jobs.
:haw:
[QUOTE=Atlascore;30506039]Now you're just being idiotic.[/QUOTE]
No I'm not. He just named out things that people of every country, race, and ideals do.
[QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;30505827]See[/QUOTE]
What seems to be the problem here? They're not citizens. They do not pay the taxes we pay to fund public schools and transportation systems (insofar as transit by friends is concerned, it [b]should[/b] be forbidden; they are not legally here within our borders, after all), they don't serve on juries, they don't have to register for the draft... so it's only sensible that they're not entitled to the same privileges and rights as citizens are. They should not be allowed to vote, they should not be allowed to attend public schools or colleges, and they should not be given homes or welfare coverage. The only thing they should be given is medical treatment if absolutely necessary, and even then that's only because of human rights.
[QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;30506014]"Legals" break laws, take money, and take (some) jobs.
:haw:[/QUOTE]
Legal citizens take jobs from legal citizens? What?
[QUOTE=analrapist;30506071]Legal citizens take jobs from legal citizens? What?[/QUOTE]
People who are willing to work for less than others. You could say that I, who was willing to start out at minimum wage, took the job of someone who would work for $8 an hour.
[QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;30506014]"Legals" break laws, take money, and take (some) jobs.
:haw:[/QUOTE]
Illegal Immigrants do not benefit the country in the slightest, as they do not pay taxes, and yet they take jobs from American citizens. Because these citizens no longer have income, they can no longer pay taxes, meaning that the government receives less revenue.
[quote]Data on health care costs for illegal immigrants are sketchy because hospitals and community health centers don't ask about patients' legal status. [b]In California, a 2004 study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform put the state's annual cost at $1.4 billion.[/b] Similar studies in Colorado and Minnesota in 2005 came up with much smaller estimates: $31 million and $17 million, respectively.
One thing is clear: Undocumented immigrants are driving up the number of people without health insurance. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that 59% of the nation's illegal immigrants are uninsured, compared with 25% of legal immigrants and 14% of U.S. citizens. Illegal immigrants represent about 15% of the nation's 47 million uninsured people — and about 30% of the increase since 1980.
"If you want to do something that will have a meaningful impact on the problem of the uninsured, then you must talk about undocumented immigrants," says James Smith, a senior economist at the RAND Corp[/quote]
[url]http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-01-21-immigrant-healthcare_N.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30506094]Illegal Immigrants do not benefit the country in the slightest, as they do not pay taxes, and yet they take jobs from American citizens. Because these citizens no longer have income, they can no longer pay taxes, meaning that the government receives less revenue.[/QUOTE]
They.
Do.
Not.
Take.
Jobs.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;30506094]Illegal Immigrants do not benefit the country in the slightest, as they do not pay taxes, [/QUOTE]
I agree in general, but this part is not 100% true.
While they usually do not pay income tax and their employers do not pay payroll tax (because they are paid under the table) they still have to pay sales tax, and when they buy things it helps the economy a little bit.
But the costs outweigh the benefits.
[QUOTE=analrapist;30505858]Schools are for citizens.
They aren't citizens so they shouldn't be able to use them.[/QUOTE]
I think the UN declared education a human right
[QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;30506090]People who are willing to work for less than others. You could say that I, who was willing to start out at minimum wage, took the job of someone who would work for $8 an hour.[/QUOTE]
Illegal immigrants often work for wages [b]below the minimum wage[/b].
This drives down the pay for unskilled labor for legal citizens, and makes it harder for a legal citizen to find work as a laborer.
[editline]16th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30506157]I think the UN declared education a human right[/QUOTE]
The UN declares a lot of shit. Too bad none of it means anything.
The illegal immigrants have a "human right" to education --- back in their home country.
[QUOTE=analrapist;30506177]
The UN declares a lot of shit. Too bad none of it means anything.
The illegal immigrants have a "human right" to education --- back in their home country.[/QUOTE]
If the US signed the declaration it means a hell of a lot
[QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;30506116]They.
Do.
Not.
Take.
Jobs.[/QUOTE]
DIS
AG
REE
THEY
DO
TAKE
JOBS
[QUOTE=Atlascore;30506209]Too bad literally no one listens to the UN, it's a joke organization just like the League of Nations.[/QUOTE]
No the UN is actually very influential, especially when it comes to human rights
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30506157]I think the UN declared education a human right[/QUOTE]
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights does indeed declare fundamental elementary education to be a human right, as does it health care and protection, but only on a nation-by-nation basis. That is to say, the United States is required to provide what's mandated by the articles of the charter for its own citizens, but is not legally bound to do so for the citizens of other nations. We do, as far as health care in concerned, out of our own generosity to tourists and even illegals (national law simply says everyone who needs medical attention has a right to it), but we're not required to do so (many other western nations do the same, too, in a similar fashion- out of their own generosity and/or in accordance with their own national laws). At least not as far as the UN or any international agreements are concerned.
[url]http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml[/url]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;30506200]If the US signed the declaration it means a hell of a lot[/QUOTE]
No, actually it doesn't mean anything.
Seriously, nobody here cares about what the UN says about anything.
It's just a tool for the USA to get other countries to do what we want, and to have an excuse to attack countries we don't like.
UN resolutions are meaningless on American soil.
[QUOTE=ThatHippyMan;30506116]They.
Do.
Not.
Take.
Jobs.[/QUOTE]
Then how do Illegal Immigrants obtain food in America? They can't apply for welfare, and [i]apparently[/i] they don't take jobs or steal. Either they don't eat or they generate their own source of food through photosynthesis.
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;30506293]The Universal Declaration of Human Rights does indeed declare fundamental elementary education to be a human right, as does it health care and protection, but only on a nation-by-nation basis. That is to say, the United States is required to provide what's mandated by the articles of the charter for its own citizens, but is not legally bound to do so for the citizens of other nations. We do, as far as health care in concerned, out of our own generosity to tourists and even illegals (national law simply says everyone who needs medical attention has a right to it), but we're not required to do so. At least not as far as the UN or any international agreements are concerned.
[url]http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml[/url][/QUOTE]
Shit, we don't even provide adequate health care for our own citizens.
American health care is bullocks, in large part because of illegal immigrants creating a massive drain on the system.
There should be no problem with "asking for papers" to prove citizenship. I would be proud if somebody asked to see proof of citizenship so I could wave it in their face.
And yes, all of my ancestors immigrated here. But they immigrated [I]legally[/I].
[QUOTE=analrapist;30506336]Shit, we don't even provide adequate health care for our own citizens.
American health care is bullocks, in large part because of illegal immigrants creating a massive drain on the system.[/QUOTE]
No kidding. It's interesting to read just how economically dependent we are on illegal immigrants now. Interesting and sad.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States[/url]
[editline]17th June 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ardosos;30506348]There should be no problem with "asking for papers" to prove citizenship. I would be proud if somebody asked to see proof of citizenship so I could wave it in their face.[/QUOTE]
Oh careful now with that logic of yours. If we did that, why by god we'd be a Fascist police state stopping people for their documents. [i]"Ihre papiere, bitte."[/i] :v:
We could still get rid of them though. It would take a while, but it could be done.
Most of the labor cost arguments in favor of keeping illegal immigrants are bullcrap anyway. Because so much of it is automated these days the cost of labor increase to pay field workers minimum wage would add about 10¢ to the price of a head of lettuce.
The industry that would probably see the largest increase in pricing because of getting rid of illegal immigrants would probably be new home construction, and we don't need much of that these days anyway what with the housing bubble and all that.
[QUOTE=analrapist;30506444]We could still get rid of them though. It would take a while, but it could be done.
Most of the labor cost arguments in favor of keeping illegal immigrants are bullcrap anyway. Because so much of it is automated these days the cost of labor increase to pay field workers minimum wage would add about 10¢ to the price of a head of lettuce.
The industry that would probably see the largest increase in pricing because of getting rid of illegal immigrants would probably be new home construction, and we don't need much of that these days anyway what with the housing bubble and all that.[/QUOTE]
We need to take action against the illegals themselves as much as we do the businesses, companies, and individual people who hire them. They give them a big incentive to come here. It's nothing personal towards the illegals themselves; they just want a better life for themselves and their families. Who could be blamed for that? All I know is this much: if we don't do something to stop or better yet reverse the flow of them ASAP, then it's inevitable that we will reach a point where they are absolutely essential to our economy. When that happens, there's nothing we can do.
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;30506293]The Universal Declaration of Human Rights does indeed declare fundamental elementary education to be a human right, as does it health care and protection, but only on a nation-by-nation basis. That is to say, the United States is required to provide what's mandated by the articles of the charter for its own citizens, but is not legally bound to do so for the citizens of other nations. We do, as far as health care in concerned, out of our own generosity to tourists and even illegals (national law simply says everyone who needs medical attention has a right to it), but we're not required to do so (many other western nations do the same, too, in a similar fashion- out of their own generosity and/or in accordance with their own national laws). At least not as far as the UN or any international agreements are concerned.
[url]http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/index.shtml[/url][/QUOTE]
[release]Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms, [/release]
Sounds to me like they intend all participating nations to work together. Denying education to illegal immigrants (I know that's not as far as this bill is going fyi) is just going to result in a bunch of uneducated illegal immigrants, it's counterproductive and even you can see that I'm sure.
They have their own country, Its called Mexico. You stay there and I wont bother you.
[QUOTE=Mudbone;30506717]They have their own country, Its called Mexico. You stay there and I wont bother you.[/QUOTE]
wow! what a totally sensible and not at all oversimplified view on the issue!
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